Carmen Policy says expansion Browns needed more time in the cellar. No, not that cellar.

Carmen Policy still has that soothing way about him.

He sounds at home in California's Napa Valley, where he and his wife Gail founded Casa Piena Vineyards after he left the Cleveland Browns.

"It's fun, to be honest with you," Policy said of the wine business. "We really enjoy the people we meet.

"Unfortunately, it's expensive, because of the way we make it."

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Go online and find a 2016 bottle of Casa Piena Cabernet Sauvignon for $189. The description is in one of Policy's languages:

"The trajectory is absolutely seamless, and the tannin so finely integrated it drinks more like a wine that has been cellared seven years. And while immediately approachable today, there are many more layers yet to bloom if given time in the cellar."

If so inclined, raise a glass to Policy during football's biggest week. He went to five Super Bowls with the 49ers. If there were none with Cleveland, well, he could make losing fun, almost. Theatrical and charismatic, he was the great entertainer of the Browns' expansion era.

He was there at the start in 1999 and might have stayed on, as he would have put it, "Dare I say, until we raise the Lombardi Trophy."

He could talk like a star trial lawyer, which he once was. Beat reporters sometimes grudgingly listened because he was always breaking Browns news on air to WTAM's Mike Trivisonno.

Policy could share any story he wanted. He was team president.

The big ones were drafting quarterback Tim Couch at No. 1 overall in '99 and hiring coach Butch Davis away from the Miami Hurricanes in 2001.

Policy still winces when recalling Orlando "Zeus" Brown getting hit in the eye by a penalty flag in '99. He was there for "Bottlegate" two years later.

"Starting with Zeus almost getting blinded, so many things started happening," Policy said in a long phone interview. "We started getting going when Butch Davis came on board, Things seemed to go in a direction we liked. I'm not saying I thought we were going to the Super Bowl, but I had the feeling we were going to the playoffs."

Owner Al Lerner died seven games into the 2002 season.

"Losing Al set the whole thing back," Policy said. "We weren't Super Bowl material even when we made it to the playoffs. However, it was a start. I think that, had Al lived and maintained some reasonable degree of health, the team would have moved further."

The winemaker makes the case that the expansion Browns needed more time in the cellar, so to speak.

"They turned this thing over too late," he said. "I knew it before I came to Cleveland. Dan Rooney and I jumped on it and insisted that Cleveland get an expansion team (rather than a relocated franchise).

"They were allowing Cleveland to be used as a tool for other clubs that wanted new stadiums. Lo and behold, after it was decided it would be an expansion franchise, a few months later I get the call ... 'Would you be interested?'

"Once Al Lerner and I walked into the building, we were dealing with things like rented furniture, and not a single employee.

"They had some people there working, pursuant to the league finding individuals who didn't have jobs at the time, and calling them scouts and calling them this and calling them that.

"We had our hands full just getting up in running. Al and I made a trip to New York to try to get the league to postpone our first season from '99 to 2000. They sympathized with us, but ... We didn't get the right to operate the franchise until Oct. 23 of 1998."

On Feb. 23, 1999, in a packed Canton Memorial Civic Center, Jim Pyne paraded across the stage as the first pick in the expansion draft. The Browns chose 37 players, passing on quarterback Kurt Warner, who the Rams were willing to let go — months before he went from unknown backup to NFL superstar.

Couch went in the regular draft on April 17.

"Other expansion franchises had 17 months, 24 months, to prepare," Policy said. "With the time we were given, it was beyond an uphill climb."

Couch lasted only five NFL seasons, posting a 22-37 record. Coach Bruce Arians, who landed in Cleveland with Davis in 2001, said years later that Couch would have been a winning quarterback if not rushed and ravaged on a hurry-up expansion team.

"I agree with Bruce," Policy said. "I don't know that drafting Tim was a mistake."

Arians is a poster boy for things the Browns didn't do. They didn't draft Ben Roethlisberger in 2004; Arians coached Big Ben in Pittsburgh on three teams that went to Super Bowls.

Given several chances to hire Arians as head coach, they passed. Last year, Arians piloted the Buccaneers team that won a Super Bowl with Tom Brady. The Browns passed on Brady in the 2000 draft.

Hoping for a good developmental quarterback behind Couch, the 2000 Browns spent a sixth-round pick, No. 183 overall, on Spergon Wynn. The Patriots took Brady at No. 199.

He retired last week with seven Super Bowl wins and five Super Bowl MVP trophies to his credit.

Policy was neither a scout nor a player picker, but he doesn't condemn those who were — Chris Palmer was head coach; Dwight Clark was the No. 1 player personnel executive — for missing Brady.

"Everybody passed on Brady for most of the draft," Policy said. "Brady would have been behind Tim. Would he have developed? He went to the Patriots and was behind a Pro Bowler (Drew Bledsoe). He learned from the veteran. He had a coach (Bill Belichick was in his first Patriots season) who is destined to be remembered as the best coach in modern NFL history.

"What would have happened in Cleveland? Maybe Mr. Brady would have been buried in the process and not even had a chance for a breath of air. I can't begin to conjecture."

The Browns reached the 2002 playoffs and lost 36-33 at Pittsburgh. They fell back to 5-11 in 2003, Randy Lerner's first full season as owner.

Policy was gone to California by the time Davis resigned with five games left in the 2004 season. The Browns have had two winning seasons since then. Randy Lerner, Al's son, sold the team to Jimmy Haslam in 2012.

Before going back to his life in wine country, Policy, whose son Ed is CEO of the Green Bay Packers, weighed in on Cleveland's current prospects.

"There's a little cadre of people out here who root for the Browns, and especially for Baker Mayfield," Policy said. "Jimmy Haslam, from what I've heard, has gotten serious about this Browns franchise. I've heard he likes Cleveland. I heard some of his family has moved to Cleveland. I heard he's pretty well committed.

"There were thoughts of ... would he consider the Titans if they were for sale, and consider transferring ownership of the Browns to somebody else? My understanding, from people inside the inner circle, is, no, he wants to see this thing work for the Browns. That's the feedback I'm getting, at least."

Reach Steve at steve.doerschuk@cantonrep.com

On Twitter: @sdoerschukREP

This article originally appeared on The Repository: Carmen Policy's talks Cleveland Browns expansion era