Olympians Aly Raisman and Laurie Hernandez on the Untold Story of Women’s Gymnastics

 For the past few years, gymnastics has sparked two simultaneous reactions: total awe over athletes like Simone Biles who are practically rewriting the laws of physics, and total horror over claims of widespread abuse in gymnastics organizations around the world. Both are valid, and both should have room to exist, according to Olympic gymnasts Aly Raisman and Laurie Hernandez, part of the “Final Five” gymnastics team that brought home gold at the 2016 Olympics.

That’s something Raisman, 26, and Hernandez, 20, hope people take away from the new docuseries Defying Gravity: The Untold Story of Women’s Gymnastics, now streaming on Glamour's YouTube channel. “There are so many gymnasts that I looked up to that I watched, or that my mom looked up to, or even my grandmother looked up to, that are in this project,” Raisman says over Zoom after the show’s premiere.

Along with being a highlight reel sure to get you pumped for the Tokyo Olympics (postponed due to the coronavirus and rescheduled for July 23, 2021), the docuseries was also a chance for gymnasts to finally tell their own stories—“I loved having the opportunity to do that in a way that was creative and exciting and entertaining but also truthful and authentic to me,” says Hernandez—especially after headlines of abuse so dominated the news about the sport..

The 2017 reports of allegations that USA Gymnastics had been covering up reports of sexual assault unleashed a wave of gymnasts’ stories. An army of women came forward with testimonies. Sports officials were investigated. Gymnasts got a voice. (Hernandez spoke out about emotional abuse by a former coach in May.) 

“The media is a huge part of allowing for change to happen in the gymnastics world and in our society. I’m extremely grateful for that,” Raisman says. But the headlines have also made it hard to talk about the joy in gymnastics—like the kind that made Kaitlin Ohashi’s light-up-the-room floor routine go viral in 2019, or that makes jaws drop every time Biles sets a new record. “I was really excited about having the opportunity to talk about my love for gymnastics,” Riasman says. “Because at the end of the day, it’s a very tough sport and a lot of us have been through a lot, but we still love gymnastics.”

In the following conversation, Raisman and Hernandez talk about life after the Olympics, why it’s important to make space for the good and the bad in gymnastics, and the power of getting to tell their own stories.

Mental health is such a big theme throughout Defying Gravity. Can you each share a little bit about your own mental health journey and finding your voice?

Laurie Hernandez: Mental health has always been a really big part of my life—not just my gymnastics life, but in general. My mom is a social worker and a therapist. My sister is a therapist. I see a therapist. I’m just surrounded by feelings almost 24/7. The older that I got, the more I realized that a lot of my close friends didn’t have a safe environment to share what they were feeling—especially in the gymnastics world, where you’re taught be strong, just bulldoze through it, no feelings allowed, just be serious, get your work done, and then get out of there.

I think every athlete and every gymnast can agree that sport and gymnastics is such a mental game. Just opening up that conversation feels so important and letting other people know, if you’re getting frustrated, if you’re sad, if you’re scared, all of these things are normal and we would love to talk about it with you.

Aly Raisman: What’s super cool about Laurie and I is that we do call each other. If I’m upset about something, Laurie’s one of the people that I call. I think it’s so important to have someone in your life. It could be anybody. Some people aren’t comfortable talking to a therapist, and that’s totally okay, but I think it’s so important to have someone in your life that you trust.

When I was training, I was really focused and obsessed with the physical part of it. I didn’t really have the tools or knowledge to understand how important the mental aspect of it is. I understood I was struggling mentally, but I didn’t know there was a way to feel better. I didn’t have the tools to cope with anxiety and the trauma that I had been experiencing. I didn’t know how to get out of that. I didn’t even know there was a way. It wasn’t really talked about. I’m just very grateful for all of these athletes and really anybody, not just athletes. I’m inspired by so many people who are speaking up and sharing their stories.

Aly: I actually have a question for Laurie. I remember a couple years ago I did an interview and the reporter was asking about the anxiety and depression that I’ve experienced. I remember I just felt so uncomfortable talking about it. I felt so much shame and I felt embarrassed, and now I don’t feel that way at all, but I was curious if you had the same thing and if you feel it’s easier to talk about or you feel safer talking about it now.?

Laurie: Well, I wasn’t really asked about my mental health until I started speaking about my mental health. When I started getting those questions, then I was like, Am I allowed to talk about that? I wasn’t ready for my inner thoughts and the things that feel so personal to me to be a topic of conversation that was talked about and used throughout interviews or social media. Whereas now I feel so comfortable talking about it because it’s not who I am, but it makes up a lot of my life, and making sure that I’m taking care of my mental health has been the key thing, especially now, with everybody on lockdown or staying at home. It’s so important to get the conversation started because everybody’s going through something. Talking about it feels liberating now. It feels good. It feels like I’m getting a lot off my chest every time I get to talk about it.

Aly: I learned at a young age that it didn’t really matter as much how I felt. If the judges were happy with me, if my coaches were happy with me, that’s how I defined my day or myself or that moment. I wish when I was younger I’d had the tools I have now. That’s why I’m so glad you’re talking about it. Not everybody is going to love what we do. But as long as you’re doing the best that you can, as long as you’re enjoying it, and most importantly, as long as you’re safe, that’s really what matters.

Laurie: I feel like this is turning into one of our FaceTime calls.

“I was 18 years old, fourth place in the world, and I felt my life was over.” 

Aly: Yeah. This is what we talk about sometimes on FaceTime. For us competing at the Olympics, we work so hard and it’s so consuming. I talked about this in the YouTube series in one of the episodes. I got fourth in the all-arounds and I got fourth with a mistake. I remember I felt completely worthless. I remember I was texting people, apologizing. I was going through my phone contacts and just apologizing to as many people as I could. And I look back now, and I’m so proud of that placement. I didn’t get a medal. But I’m so proud of that moment because I did the best that I could. And it just is crazy to me that I was 18 years old, fourth place in the world, and I felt my life was over. I was like, “Everyone in America is going to hate me. I have to apologize to as many people as I can.”

When did you each feel like you found your voice and thought, “I can speak up and I can own my own story?”

Laurie: Honestly, I think I found my voice solidly this year, because until then, it was me just going through the motions in life. There was so much that was happening, especially after 2016. There were so many crazy opportunities, and I got to meet so many new people. And it was wonderful. And I was just blasting through all of these things, not realizing that there were a lot of things that talking about or coming to terms with at the time probably would’ve been pretty helpful. But instead I was just ignoring it. I was like, “All right, it’s a new chapter in life. Let’s do it.”

And then earlier this year, there was a case opened up [about a former coach], and they’re like, “Hey, you're going to have to speak at this.” And I was like, “Ooh, me? Are you sure you want me?” And I was really worried about it. It was a topic that was just so personal and something that I have ignored for a couple of years. To finally talk about it, it was really tough at first. And especially after that conversation was over, it still felt like it was weighing heavily on me. 

“I just get so tired because I know that story is not all I am and what happened isn’t all I am.”

I ended up coming out with this story on social media and letting people know what had happened. And the response was just insane. I was terrified of letting people in and then sharing what had happened. Actually, Aly, I called you that morning freaking out about posting it. And I was like, “Is this a good idea? Do I do this? Do I not do this?” And you were like, “No, this is such a good thing.”

And then it goes up, and it got thousands and thousands of responses of, “I didn’t realize that this had happened to me too. I completely blocked it from my brain. And then I realized I had a similar situation like you.” It kick-started this whole movement of talking about gymnastics culture because a lot still needs to change. We dropped this one thing that happened, and it started the conversation, which I think was really important. And then I just get so tired because I know that that story’s not all I am and what happened isn’t all I am. It played a really big role into who I became, but it made me stronger. And sharing my story helped me unite with people.

Aly: And with Athlete A coming out, it’s sparked this movement on Twitter and online.

Laurie: #GymnastAlliance!

Aly: #GymnastAlliance! It’s gymnasts from all around the world speaking up and sharing their stories. And it is heartbreaking. It’s hard to put into words. I find it just so incredible at the same time. I feel so many emotions as I’m sitting there reading it. Some of it is super triggering because I can relate to it. Some of it is just like…My heart goes out to them. And just the pain that they’ve endured, but then also the hope of, Wow, I really feel things can actually change. It’s really powerful.

On the theme of hope and change in the sport and how that is portrayed in Defying Gravity—the chapter on abuse comes so late in the series. How did you guys feel about that?

Laurie: I think it’s really important to tell every angle possible and know that one story doesn’t define the other. One story doesn’t overpower the other. It’s knowing that all of this coexists in this crazy world and hoping that by speaking about it, we can make it a better positive experience for those who come after us. I know it’s sometimes such a hard conversation and a hard topic to talk about. And a lot of people are like, “Whoa, that’s intense. I don’t know if I want to hear it.” But it has to be told, and it has to be heard because [abuse] is something that happened and is still happening. I know I keep saying it, but kicking off that conversation and making sure that people are listening, it’s really important. And I’m glad that Defying Gravity is able to do that.

Aly: I’ve thought about this a lot. The last couple of years have been so focused on the negative parts of gymnastics. And as I’ve said many times, without the media helping bring attention to that negative part of the sport, I don’t believe we would be able to effectuate as much change. We need the media’s help. However, I think that it’s important to recognize that you can talk about both things. You can talk about the sexual abuse problem in the sport and in our society. You can talk about how there are many gymnasts that have eating disorders or depression or anxiety. But I think it’s equally as important to also talk about the love that we have for the sport and all the incredible things about it. And I think that what makes this project with YouTube very unique is that they’re able to do both.

“When you are experiencing trauma, in order to heal, it is so important to bring joy and light into your life.”

For me personally, I can sit here and say, “Yes, I’ve had a lot of PTSD and trauma from certain parts of my gymnastics, and it still affects me to this day.” But I can also sit here and say, “There are many parts of gymnastics that have impacted my life in the most incredible way and made me the person that I am. And there are many things about gymnastics that I’ve loved so much.” I find myself being inspired by watching the ’92 Olympics again or the ’88 Olympics again. I feel like that younger self again who’s inspired by these gymnasts that came before me. You can have both experiences.

Something I’ve learned is that when you are experiencing trauma and you’re having a hard time, in order to heal, it is so important to bring joy and light into your life. And that can be very hard. I’m not saying that’s easy. I’ve learned from my own personal experience of when I’m having a tough day, it’s so hard to get myself to do something for myself or to do something that brings me joy. But it’s really important. I think you need both. And to have that balance is very, very important.

Laurie: The reason I was two minutes late [to the interview] was because I literally had just come from virtual therapy.

Aly: Whoo, therapy!

I used to have this fear of if I’m practicing self-compassion a lot, will that make me lazier? Will it make me not want to work as hard? You know what I mean? I read this thing one time that said something like, “You’ve been so hard on yourself for a long time. How’s that working out for you?” There’s a lot of research in different studies that I’ve been learning about that shows when you actually practice self-compassion instead of sitting with that self-judgment or shame and the guilt that prevents you from being able to move on, you’re actually able to be like, “It’s okay. I’m human, not perfect. I’m going to try better next time.” In gymnastics we’re always looking for: How can I do better? Or what did I mess up on? What can I do better? So I’m just working on allowing myself to be human, but that can be hard.

When you spend most of your life training in a way that’s all about finding external validation and performing at a level that really is almost superhuman, how could you not feel that way?

Aly: The part of that that’s a positive is I’ve been learning a lot, taking different courses and trying to go above and beyond learning about mental health so that I can better be equipped to talk about it.

Laurie: Also, a plus side to it, which I don’t even think you realize, is that sometimes you worry so much about being a good human. Something I always tell you, it’s like people who maybe are not the greatest humans don’t worry about being a bad human. And you may be thinking, How did they take this? How did they do that? Doing it in a way that’s safe for you and healthy, and in a way that brings you peace, is so important. But also all of these different points of views make you so relatable and such an open-space and open-armed person that people feel they can come to you without judgment because you are thinking of all these different things. And I don’t even think you realize that. It’s why you've become such a safe space for so many gymnasts and so many people.

“We forget that the whole fun of the sport is trying these new things and being a crazy athlete.”

Aly: Thank you, Laurie. I am not just saying this, but I genuinely feel the same way about you. And I actually saw you tweeted yesterday. I think someone said, “What do you want to be remembered for?” And you said…what’d you say? “Being a safe place for everyone”? I feel like you genuinely are that. You’re younger than me and I literally call you for help. Laurie is like my therapist sometimes. I mean she’s so good at giving advice and being there for me.

I remember I called her a few months ago. I was so nervous about something, and I was almost afraid. It was something that was great that was happening. And this happens to me a lot where when something is really good, I’m like, What if something bad happens? I’m afraid to let myself enjoy it. Laurie had this great advice of, “Just tell me what you’re afraid of, just say it.” You sort of encouraged me to get it out of my body. Because sometimes when you talk about it, you’re like, “That is so unrealistic.” In our minds it feels so real, but then when you’re saying it out loud to someone you’re like, “Oh, that’s not going to happen. It’s fine.”

Laurie, you’re training for the Tokyo Olympics. Everything is different in our world since 2016. But going into this Olympic cycle in 2021, what is different for you? How is the experience different?

Laurie: Something Aly said earlier in the sense it was like, “Okay, I realized it’s not the sport that’s bad, but maybe it was the environment.” And I think that was a really important thought for me, especially after 2016. It took me two years to realize that the environment that I was in wasn’t the best for me and for those around me, but it’s not the sport that I didn’t like or that I wanted to stop. After kind of coming across that, I was like, “You know, but if I do end up changing it and changing the environment but still doing the thing I love, will things change?” And I think that’s been a huge plot twist for me.

Going into 2021, and especially with this extra year, it gives me time to work on upgrades and to fix some technique stuff, but also extra time to just enjoy myself and to try new things. Because sometimes we get so caught up in getting ready for meet season, we forget that the whole fun of the sport is trying these new things and being a crazy athlete. That’s the whole point. The love of the sport feels different than when I was 16 and being so nervous and caught up in just trying to make this team. Versus now, I want to make this team, but I also really want to have a good time. And I’m going to make it so that way I can do both. There’s no reason that one needs to be sacrificed for the other.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Originally Appeared on Glamour