Herbst wins men’s World Cup slalom; Miller DQd

Greg, the record is 403 to 98 overall world cup victories. Austria by 4 times over the US. I agree there are lots of coaches that are actively coaching whom have ski racing background that have gone to ski school clinics to get certified. Does that make them qualified to teach? Sure, but junior programs throughout the nation are clones of American ski school techniques. Now if the coaches follow their supervisors ymca approach they will talk the kids into boredum eventually abandoning racing and off to the parks. This works great for corporate ski schools because the general public will pay to come back tomorrow for more lectures (standing in groups clogging ski runs everywhere) because they are still waiting to learn how to ski..Repeat customers$$$$!!!!! Now ski racing is quite different from day 1. Technique is critical so whether your coaches are ski instructors or ex nastar or ex junior racers they are clueless of what these skiis and boot combos will do to you at' world speed' These flapping arm programs have gotten more kids hurt in the development programs and destroyed some of the greatest American skiers before they ever had a chance. US ski team coaches forcing young slalom specialists to race downhill in Europe. If you want names there are plenty!!! Now regarding the Mahres. I agree they were nw hacks but twins are unique. They had each other and their bodies and minds think similar. I discussed this with Phil at a pre race meeting for our kids whom were racing in the event. I commended him on his incredible improvement and how he skiied the slalom perfect in the Olympics. He graciously thanked me while we waited for him to be called up as the guest speaker. The coaches talked incessantly about their knowledge and the event never calling on the former gold medalists to share his experience. What a waste!!! Now, Why should we have to bring up the girls? Girls love boys and boys love girls. Boys can go extremely fast with good technique or not. Girls are not stupid and boys like to teach. Seriously, girls have very fast examples if they are lucky enough to follow one with good technique they can go fast too. I don't know Ted but he is an attacker and very smart to have figured it out. I'm sure someone helped him or he is a good video anaylist. Regarding 1st hand, when I met Jean Claude Killy he stated,"If you ski anything like your brother, I sure don't want to have to race you....By the way ski areas don't hire racing coaches, they hire ski enthusiasts whom pay the ski school for little racing teaching certificates. If you pay enough and get enough certificates then you are licensed to be a race coach. Thats neat and wonderful but little juniors continue to go through programs flapping themselves off of race tracks throughout America.

And Patricia......Bode did his own thing because he was not willing to go by the rules the Ski Team had at the time.

The more I read what you write.......the more I wonder if you really know what you are talking about first hand. Maybe you need to quit reading books and listening to hearsay and get out there and coach or help out with your local ski RACE team yourself. Your descriptions of what happens in ski race programs could not be further from the truth.

Patricia.....I am becoming a bit alarmed by your attitude here. You seem to have general ski schools pegged pretty well. But, EVERY ski race team I have been a part of the coaching staff was made up primarily of ski race coaches. Not instructors masquerading as such...but certified racing specialists. Most of these were former racers themselves.

I would also say that you do not seem to know there Mahre's very well then. I spent dozens of hours with them and when Phil himself says he was not technically pure, I will let that speak for itself.

You seem to think that Americans are incapable of coaching and developing winning ski racers, yet you have said nothing about Lindsay Vonn, Ted Ligerty, or Julia Mancuso. All of whom win, or are capable of winning at anytime. Ligety, and Vonn are very clean technique wise. So enlighten me as to what your beef is. You sure sound a lot like an Austrian snob to me.

Park.......as to your last post.....Micro brews sounds GREAT to me!

The certification ski school techniques took over ski racing in the 70's. Ski schools for the public make money. Ski racing doesn't make money for ski resorts therefor ski racing america is run by a bunch of ski instructors with lots of certification cards (revamped or not).This makes sense from the corporate view but has virtually destroyed the hopes and the potential of the greatest young skiers in America. Their system relies heavey on lectures on the slopes, icing the public and more dangerously young ski racers waiting to attack training courses while there muscles grow cold. So the rich can send their kids to a private academy where there might be a qualified coach while the rest ski off to the parks. Now as for the Mahres. Phil was extremely technical and did not win leaning. Maybe Harold fixed him but he skiied nearly perfect when winning and Steve was figuring it out in the end. Bode is extremely talented and when he was winning he wasn't flapping. Again the equipment has no patience for any kind of flappin or leaning. Perfect technique is mandatory whether you are long or short, you can not drag your left arm behind you. This is why ski instructors can not take our young skiers and bring them to a world class level. They can't understand what they can't experience. Bode, The Mahres, Tommy Moe are freaks (very special atheletes ) whom figured out not to listen to goof balls and weaved through to victory. Did you ever wonder why Bode did his own thing???

OK- Greg. Don't get too worked up over what I am saying. As far as ski-race technique the Mahres are history and Bode is almost a foregone conclusion. I'm talking about some commonalities -bad ones- in movement patterns that need to be corrected. Just as everyone has different biomechanics (like endo, meso, and ecotmorphic are body types), everyone will have some kind of quirkiness. Is the quirkiness functional enough to help them go faster in the race course? Cool - then roll with it. Does it hinder the athlete? Then modify or do away with it.

Greg- commonalities for instance - we have a whole new crop of racers out there who never even heard of a straight ski. Shape skis turn so easily when edged that we have a new trend developing called park-and-ride (instead of progressive edging). This is one of many common movement patterns developing and it's not good. In this case, our little racer rockets are throwing skis edge and hanging on for the ride. This is one of many syndromes that USSA coaches are trying to address at the J5 level. And this is just within the realm of ski technique. My point to Patricia is that her concerns about teaching kids early is being addressed at an early age and not just in the area of ski technique.

Hope this helps, but it's really the kind of discussion that sucks on a computer, but works best over several sessions face to face and with many micro-brews.

Cheers
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Patricia and Parkinator.....I want to respond to what you are saying.

Is Bode text book? Not at all. But he has achieved the success he has doing it his way. He has won TWO World Cup overalls so it is not like he is not winning against the Europeans. He is also not the first to have quirks in his skiing style. Phil and Steve Mahre both had what can only be described as the "White Pass Lean". It was not text book at all and many coaches attempted to get it out of their skiing. Harold Schoenaar was the first coach to look at them and build on what they did, not remove it. By working with them, he was able to help them become the successes they both were. In my race days I was also not text book in any way. I was frustrated by much of the "coaching" I received. I did not get coaching that really helped me until I worked with Phil and Steve because they understood what it meant to be unorthodox, and how to take what you do and make it better. It made all the difference to me. I then lucked out and found a coach who could work with me on a regular basis that also understood that. I had a fair amount of success after that.

What I am saying is that while it is good to have coaches go through a certification process, it may not be a good thing to have them all believing there is just one proper way to ski. That is not true, and many a great skier could be missed out on if coaches are not flexible enough to be able to work with individuality.

patricia- USSA recognizes your concerns. If you have been following what they have been doing over the last several years- the coaching certification and continuing ed have been entirely revamped.

I didn't get to see Bode ski the slalom but I have watched his deterioation through the years. His arms have been a disaster for years. I don't understand why he could not correct his problems in this modern era of video. You don't need a coach so I hope the us ski team has hired some one that has a clue or shoot video of him so he could figure it out. This sport is so technical and the skiis/boots demand perfect technique to be successful. Just take a look at the Austrians through the years. They don't send there kids down the slopes flailing for years. They teach them early. Our American programs are like ymca comparativly. We have unqualified teachers from very early stages all the way through the ski team . This is not a new problem. It does not impress me when an American whoops americans by seconds. The problem is, it is generally too late by the time kids make the us ski team to teach technique. Bode is very talented and I hope someone can help him because racing is dangerous and you only have a couple o f minutes a week to get it together.

grob12541 thats an awesome ski resume man, wish I could have gotten even close to that as I had a lot of fun racing. congrats to you! and yes some race series do have handicaps like ASRA. I agree that Bode is talented and unpredictable and should be a fun Olympics. Just didnt like the quick criticism that was obviously not thought out! I dont think Bode is expecting to hit podiums early on and I dont think its his main concern. I think he is pacing himself for what will be a grueling schedule. Only time I saw Bode was when he was skiing for Carabasset academy. He blew people away in GS and slalom by SECONDS per run.

Handicap in Masters Racing? Not that I remember. I do remember handicaps in NASTAR though.

Bode is going to struggle, especially in the early races. You can't just walk back on to the WC and hit podiums. Mr. is right about this. But.....this guy is possessed of talent few of us can dream of. Will he redeem himself at Vancouver? Only time will tell for sure. But, the fact that he made the second run on his first race back speaks volumes about him.

I remember the first time I ever saw Bode. He showed up at Mt. Bachelor at the JO's on a pair of K2 Fours, and won EVERYTHING! By huge margins.

And if we are going to discuss resumes....(as if it really matters)........PNSA Masters Giant Slalom and Super G champion in 1988 - 1990. PNSA combined Bronze Medalist for the 1989 season. Total of 15 races won from 1984-1991 at the USSA level in three different regions, not to mention more NASTAR Medals than I can even count. Trained with the US Ski Team at Mt. Bachelor from 1985 - 1991. Helped Salomon develop their ski line as a tester before they ever were available. Sponsored by Tecnica, Marker, Blizzard, and Rossignol during my Race Days. Also received coaching from Phil and Steve Mahre. Oh yes.....and for good measure, drafted out of High School by the Oakland A's.

Mr I only did a few masters races and ASRA in the northeast about ten years ago with a best handicap around 7 before blowing my ACL so you may be a better racer but I am also more of a backcountry guy myself. I apologize if you truly are an accomplished racer with my armchair athlete copmment. My criticism of your blog was because I didnt think your critique of Bode was fair and my intention was to defend him. Obviously you dont understand competition at the highest levels because it is hard to sustain 100% peak performance for several months especially when you get into your 30s. Your reference to Lance exposes the weakness in your arguments. He only focuses on the TDF and he does have many months and thousands of miles before the TOUR. However what your argument is lacking is that when he does his first races of the year usally the Tour of California, Georgia or the tour down under he only has a few weeks of training. He doesnt intent to contend and he is usually a few pounds overweight. His goal is to keep conditioning and peak at the tour. SO...................Mr. It MAY BE POSSIBLE that BODE is not focusing on the overall as much as winning Olympic medals this year. Skiing all 4 disciplines is not easy as you know and so he may be trying to time his performance for Vancouver. Bode is also a lot savier than people give him credit for as you well know because he was one of the first racers to take advantage of shaped ski technology which was a large influence for his style of sitting closer on his tails. As for knowing sports at the highest level I can cite several examples. I am a +.8 handicap former NCAA D1 golfer and have played in 3 US golf amateurs and several Nationwide tour events. Also before the ACL I was a triathlete with an Olympic distance PR of 2hrs:02min with an average bike TT of 28mph.

I watched Bode's runs Steve O. Don't get me wrong, Bode has more natural talent than most but he didn't look so sharp. I know, Bodes technique isn't necessarily sharp and smooth but his timing was off. Obviously you don't understand the need or purpose of conditioning ESPECIALLY when you ski all 4 disciplines. Did Lance Armstrong come out of retirement and train for a month before he started racing again? I don't think so...... As for my skiing back ground maybe I'll see you at the next masters race. What's your handicap by the way ??

Herbst wins men’s World Cup slalom; Miller DQd

So that's the AP headline. I saw him ski out aft the gate bash. That means a did-not-finish (DNF) - not a disqualification (DQ). Pretty basic stuff and rather incompetent reporting.

Hey before you go knocking on Bode the guy in the first post may have to consider it may be HIS ACTUAL STRATEGY to pace himself to peak at Olympics. Tiger and Lance always do that to peak at big events and we know Bode has a history of getting tired by the end of the year BECAUSE HE SKIS ALL 4 DISCIPLINES. Bode knows its the big leagues. He has won it twice already. What is the skiing backgound of the dude in post 1? He is probably an armchair athlete. Bode may end up choking again like he always does at the Olympics BUT maybe this year he is putting Olympic medals a priority and training such. Consider that before putting up such a quick critical comment.

Can't take that kind of time off, train for only a month, and then expect to just fall back into podium finishes..... Sorry Bode, this is the big leagues.