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Yesterday, we discussed the availability of Martin St. Louis of the Tampa Bay Lightning in the context of a rumor posted by Dave Pagnotta of The Fourth Period, which had the diminutive winger potentially heading to the Pittsburgh Penguins for defenseman Ryan Whitney.

The general consensus we received was that a soon-to-be-34-year-old winger wasn't worth a 26-year-old defenseman who can run the power play; even if St. Louis is the prototypical winger for a center like Sidney Crosby, and even if Whitney has been "teh suck" for the Pens since returning from injury.

The chatter about this prospective deal grew so loud that both of the Lightning's newspaper beat writers addressed it on their respective blogs.

You know the old line about beauty being in the eye of the beholder? Well, Erik Erlendsson of the Tampa Tribune and Damian Cristodero of the St. Petersburg Times must have been wearing their beer goggles while typing up their posts on St. Louis ... who is apparently worth Whitney, Jordan Staal and a few other enticements from the Penguins.

From Erlendsson:

Marty would probably be a good fit with Crosby because he works hard every shift, can chase down pucks and works well in the corners. The name mentioned as coming back is defenseman Ryan Whitney. But here's the thing, if the Lightning think Whitney is the No. 1 defenseman they need, it's just not the case.

Now, if the deal was Whitney and Jordan Staal, maybe you think about it from the Lightning's perspective. Otherwise, you don't trade the heart and soul of this team. Not for the production St. Louis provides for this team. Not for what he means to the franchise. And certainly for not what he still brings at a friendly cap number (relatively speaking) of $5.25 million and the actual salary he will make, $4 million next

From Cristodero:

I guess, even if the Lightning was open to trading St. Louis, it would have to weigh whether the Laval, Quebec, native, next season, at 34, will be as valuable on the ice. Or, is it better to get whatever it can for him while his value is still so high. One thing is certain, if St. Louis is dealt by the March 4 trade deadline, it better be a win for Tampa Bay. After Vinny Lecavalier, St. Louis is the fans' favorite.

Someone floated the name of defenseman Ryan Whitney and a prospect as part of the rumor. Not nearly enough. Maybe Whitney and center Jordan Staal and some prospects; something to make sure the fans think the team got value back. Because, again, this team is going to have to sell tickets for next season, and with likely a second straight season without the playoffs, it needs something with which to market.

Look, these guys see St. Louis as often as anyone. He's incredibly popular, a locker-room leader, a Stanley Cup championship team alumnus and can still light up the scoreboard as he did in last night's 6-4 win over the Toronto Maple Leafs -- a four-point night skating with Vincent Lecavalier and Ryan Malone. If the Bolts are indeed pointed in the right direction, with Oren Koules and Len Barrie deferring hockey decisions to others, the one would imaging St. Louis would be part of that turnaround until his contract is up in 2012.

The point being that two beat writers for the team clearly value St. Louis in way many non-Bolts fans do not. To the point where Whitney and Staal are a starting point for a trade, rather than the maximum value Tampa could ever dream of getting.

Is he worth that package? Of course not. Whitney and Staal and a few picks probably gets you, say, Ilya Kovalchuk, who St. Louis is certainly not.

Would St. Louis cost more than just Whitney? Tony from Penguins blog The Confluence believes so:

I realize Tampa's not going to make that deal straight up, I mean their scouts aren't blind.  But unless Tampa Bay is demanding a high draft pick or a top prospect along with Whitney, meaning a mid-level prospect(s) and/ or picks, I'd make that deal every day and twice on Sundays.

But Whitney and Staal? Hell, just toss in Malkin and Fleury for good measure, and hope that Tampa has the comportment to send back Steve Eminger as a token of gratitude ...

There have been few hints from St. Louis that he wants to waive his no-movement clause and leave Tampa. He's worked hard, been a vocal leader and appears willing to see this through. That, combined with the perceived asking price, is probably enough to take him off the block at the deadline.

Not to say the Bolts won't be active at the deadline. Erlendsson offers two potential moves:

The first involves the San Jose Sharks, who have been scouting the Lightning somewhat in the past couple of games. John Ferguson Jr., was in Pittsburgh last week watching the game and then showed up in Tampa for Tuesday's game against Atlanta. He is not here tonight, nor is any member of the Sharks scouting staff, but word is that San Jose is looking at veteran center Jeff Halpern. ...

... Another rumor that just hit the wire involves the Columbus Blue Jackets, Word is that Tampa has been scouting Columbus recently while the Blue Jackets have a scout in the building tonight. The supposed interest on Columbus' part is Vinny Prospal. This one makes a little bit of sense to me as Prospal has been caught in his every-other-year lack of production this season and his contract is pretty hefty. Perhaps that's why Prospal has played at center tonight?

Vinny Prospal? He had 14 points in 18 games for the Philadelphia Flyers last year, but typically plays in a different gear when he's in Tampa. Not the worst pick-up for the Jackets if the price is right, but not a cure-all at center, either. It would be interesting to see if the BJs can expand a deal to include some help on the blueline.

Although based on the Tampa media's recent appraisals, it'll probably cost Nash, Mason and Hitchcock's deep fryer.

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86 Comments

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  1. A Yahoo! User
    1. Posted by A Yahoo! User Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:39 am EST

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    Marty is valued more in Tampa than other markets because we get to see him play all the time. Any team that gets a chance to get Marty should take him although we do not want him to go. I have never seen a player in the league who plays with the heart and determination that he does. He never gives up, and the thought of him playing with Crosby and Malkin is scary. Is he worth Whitney and Staal? I believe he is. Isn't Staal a -5 this year with only 30 pts. He is, at best, a streaky player and Whitney is mediocre this year. I'd would rather see Marty go for more than that. Koules should think hard before trading Marty, but then again, we only have Marty and Vinny for trade bait. No one else would take any of the Bolts players. Maybe Recchi. Stay Marty!
  2. Jegs
    2. Posted by Jegs Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:10 pm EDT

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    If Prospal played for Hitch in Philly, then Hitch probably remembers those 14 points in 18 games. But I still don't think that CBJ would give up anything worthwhile. CBJ is getting some depth at defense but now that Klesla is back on the IR, giving up a Methot or even an Aaron Rome doesn't seem worthwhile. Now if the Bolts are willing to take Backman or Tolleson...
  3. PennSt8r
    3. Posted by PennSt8r Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:19 pm EDT

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    No way Whitney and Staal get traded for 34 year old St. Louis! Whitney, Staal, and a high draft pick for maybe Kovalchuk and Armstrong? I would take that in a second. If Crosby could have someone who could bury half of the scoring chances he has created he would have 100 assists by now. They need another winger! Staal will never be more than a 3rd line center while Crosby and Malkin are around and Letang and Goligoski are quite capable. That is why Whitney is expendable.
  4. Jon A
    4. Posted by Jon A Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:11 pm EDT

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    Pens fans overrating of Jordan Staal notwithstanding, Whitney & Staal for St. Louis is not smart long-term. Whitney will most likely heat up now that Gonchar is cleared to play. I would trade Staal for St. Louis, but not both for St. Louis.
  5. pensfan1982
    5. Posted by pensfan1982 Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:50 pm EDT

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    maybe marty for whitney and a bag of pucks ... no seriously i would take a bag of pucks for whitney ... but anyway whitney and lets say satan (just to get him out of pittsburgh) and one of our better wilkes barre guys ... maybe bissonette or minard ... but whitney and staal no way staal is worth more than that ... they would have to throw in recchi and the old man roberts as well as a draft pick for that deal
  6. jibblescribbits
    6. Posted by jibblescribbits Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:34 pm EDT

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    The Blue Jackets need help on the blueline? The Avs will send them Foote for a first round pick
  7. Hans Gruber
    7. Posted by Hans Gruber Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:58 pm EDT

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    I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!
  8. Curt S
    8. Posted by Curt S Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:32 pm EDT

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    I honestly think that Whitney and a mid-level prospect is about right, but if I'm the Bolts, I'm looking to Los Angeles who have a wealth of blue-chip defensive prospects and could use a little veteran guidance going into next year (where they will likely contend for a playoff spot). I think Hickey and a first-rounder might be a better fit for the Lightning.
  9. Tim K
    9. Posted by Tim K Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:14 pm EDT

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    This is why I love the trading deadline. It's my 4th favorite day of the entire year. This trade is absolute nonsense, and no chance it happens. Everyone is throwing out these ridiculous pipedreams and hoping they stick. Here's a new rumor.... A 3 team trade sending Crosby, Fleury, and a 1st round pick to Buffalo, Connolly, Vanek, Miller and a 2nd and 3rd round pick going to Carolina, and Eric Staal, 2 future 1st round picks and their whole medical staff to Pittsburgh so that Jordan and Eric can play together.
    It's happening. Scouts have been in the buildings. Count on it.
  10. fetus enchiladas
    10. Posted by fetus enchiladas Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:22 pm EDT

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    you may see st. louis play every night, but we get a chance to see jordan staal every night and realize what kind of value he has now, and especially in the future. staal has become the best defensive forward on the pens, is a top notch penalty killer, an unbelievably long reach and presence with the puck, and a great shot. most importantly, lets not forget, jordan staal is 20 years old. TWENTY. once he grows into his frame and puts on a few pounds, he has the opportunity to be another ryan getzlaf type player. he still will only be hitting mid-stride by the time his new contract is up in four years. st. louis is 34 years old and going downhill, although he's having a productive year (who cant alongside vinny when they've been playing together for that long?) ryan whitney has struggled since coming back. he struggled a bit last year while playing with two deformed feet. if he regains his prowess on the powerplay and at even strength that he had two years ago, he can be a PP quarterback and top puck moving defenseman. st. louis is not worth both of these players at all. if anything, it should be ryan whitney and say, janne pesonen. jordan staal should not and will not be moved by this franchise.
    and you want to keep that "friendly" cap number marty has? maybe you shouldn't have wasted 7.5 million a year on ryan malone. JOKE.
  11. fetus enchiladas
    11. Posted by fetus enchiladas Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:22 pm EDT

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    you may see st. louis play every night, but we get a chance to see jordan staal every night and realize what kind of value he has now, and especially in the future. staal has become the best defensive forward on the pens, is a top notch penalty killer, an unbelievably long reach and presence with the puck, and a great shot. most importantly, lets not forget, jordan staal is 20 years old. twenty. once he grows into his frame and puts on a few pounds, he has the opportunity to be another ryan getzlaf type player. he still will only be hitting mid-stride by the time his new contract is up in four years. st. louis is 34 years old and going downhill, although he's having a productive year (who cant alongside vinny when they've been playing together for that long?) ryan whitney has struggled since coming back. he struggled a bit last year while playing with two deformed feet. if he regains his prowess on the powerplay and at even strength that he had two years ago, he can be a pp quarterback and top puck moving defenseman. st. louis is not worth both of these players at all. if anything, it should be ryan whitney and say, janne pesonen. jordan staal should not and will not be moved by this franchise.
    and you want to keep that "friendly" cap number marty has? maybe you shouldn't have wasted 7.5 million a year on ryan malone. joke.
  12. Maraldo
    12. Posted by Maraldo Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:34 pm EDT

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    @ Tim K
    The only way I accept that deal is if Ron Francis is included and running the Powerplay from the halfwall, while coaching, on the ice, playing in his suit.
  13. Mat M
    13. Posted by Mat M Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:10 pm EDT

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    Why should the penguins have anymore fun? You can't tell me that Marty's name wouldn't look better on a Blues jersey!
    It would at least legitimize my jersey foul...
  14. JasonH
    14. Posted by JasonH Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:42 pm EDT

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    I think you're bashing the writers a little hard Wysh - it's about intangibles too. The leadership, the presence on the ice as well as the community. I think the point was more that Tampa better get an offer they can't refuse for a guy like Marty. It's the same situation as the Lecavalier trade; there will be a big fan uproar and probably loss of ticket revenue. So why would you give the guy up for anything less than a win on your part?
  15. carl_vs_mastershake
    15. Posted by carl_vs_mastershake Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:18 pm EDT

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    Little Marty(not to be confused with Jumbo Marty) is a stud. Tampa would be a fool to trade him or Boyle. Woops
  16. Wyshynski
    16. Posted by Wyshynski Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:21 pm EDT

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    @ Jason --
    I think there's a difference between a win and fantasy land. Which is where trading Jordan Staal AND Ryan Whitney for a 34-year-old winger should make a happy home.
  17. Jon A
    17. Posted by Jon A Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:11 pm EDT

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    Something tells me Wysh will add a new Reader Comment Award this month. Tim K will win the Mike Milbury Award, awarded to the poster who proposes the strangest blockbuster trades that raise eyebrows as high as Barry Bonds was when he hit 72 homers.
  18. joe h
    18. Posted by joe h Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:26 pm EDT

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    And what award will you win for missing an obvious, tongue-in-cheek proposal??
    This proposal and the fans who are saying it's valid is almost as fun as reading what fans think the value is on all of the Leafs' great players.
    KABERLE TO PITTS FOR SID, A FIRST AND WHITNEY (e5)
  19. ATP
    19. Posted by ATP Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:56 pm EDT

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    Puck Daddy, please tell me you're not one of these sad sacks that year after year picks Kovalchuk in the first round of your fantasy league draft. And then wonders why you always finish in the bottom half of the league. Other than the significant age advantage, there isn't a whole lot of difference between St. Louis and Kovalchuk in terms of production. To suggest that the two aren't even comparable is seriously overvaluing Kovalchuk. And yes, I know the difference between fantasy hockey and real hockey -- and in most non-fantasy terms, St. Louis is probably better than the one-way, cherry-picking floater in Atlanta. I'm not saying I would prefer St. Louis over Kovalchuk on my favorite team, but to say St. Louis is "certainly not" Kovalchuk is a bit harsh.
  20. Gary
    20. Posted by Gary Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:09 pm EDT

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    Wysh is right, the beat writers and anyone thinking Staal AND Whitney for St Louis are crazy. Staal's numbers aren't that eye-popping because he's the 3rd line center behind two other guys you may have heard of. And he's usually paired with less talent than St Louis is paired with. Whitney and 1-2 prospects or AHL'ers would be fine for the aging vet. But why don't we all agree that TB will keep St Louis through the end of his contract unless they are in financial trouble or he demands a trade. Pittsburgh will look elsewhere, maybe even after the deadline in the offseason, for a winger. Shero will trade at least 1 defenseman though, and the Pens will make the playoffs albeit not the Cup Final where they were last year. You heard it here first. And TB can go back to being excited by the old guy and dreaming of fantasy trades.
  21. The Flash
    21. Posted by The Flash Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:53 pm EDT

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    Whitney and Staal for St. Louis? No thank you. Staal might not be a huge point producer, but dammit he plays hard both ways. He's huge on the penalty kill for the Pens. I'd rather see Kovalchuk come and play on Crosby's line.
    How about a Whitney/Boucher/Satan/2 highest draft picks the Pens got for Kovalchuk and Colby Armstrong? Hell, throw in Fedetenko, too. That's 3 (or 4 if you DO throw in Fed) expiring contracts, and a guy who's going to be good (if not great) at the point on the PP for a long time. Not to mention two more picks.
    I'd love to see a Kovalchuk/Crosby/Colby first line and a Kennedy/Malkin/Sykora 2nd line. You have Staal as the 3rd line center, plus on the PK. Gonch is coming back and you call Gologoski back up from WBS and the D is set with Sarge, Orpik, Letang, Gill, Eaton, Scuds and Gologoski. Come on...some one make me a GM! lol
    Really, what this is about is me loving to see Army back in a Pens uniform. Seriously.
  22. The Flash
    22. Posted by The Flash Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:53 pm EDT

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    whitney and staal for st. louis? no thank you. staal might not be a huge point producer, but dammit he plays hard both ways. he's huge on the penalty kill for the pens. i'd rather see kovalchuk come and play on crosby's line.
    how about a whitney/boucher/satan/2 highest draft picks the pens got for kovalchuk and colby armstrong? hell, throw in fedetenko, too. that's 3 (or 4 if you do throw in fed) expiring contracts, and a guy who's going to be good (if not great) at the point on the pp for a long time. not to mention two more picks.
    i'd love to see a kovalchuk/crosby/colby first line and a kennedy/malkin/sykora 2nd line. you have staal as the 3rd line center, plus on the pk. gonch is coming back and you call gologoski back up from wbs and the d is set with sarge, orpik, letang, gill, eaton, scuds and gologoski. come on...some one make me a gm! lol
    really, what this is about is me loving to see army back in a pens uniform. seriously.
  23. The Flash
    23. Posted by The Flash Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:53 pm EDT

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    That comment was so good, I had to post it twice, I guess.
  24. DFreak27
    24. Posted by DFreak27 Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:43 pm EDT

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    @jegs
    Prospal didn't play for Hitch in Philly. Prospal played his second stint with them last year, Hitch was fired over two years ago now. (Prospal's first stint with the Flyers ended about five years before Hitch was hired.)
  25. Brendan
    25. Posted by Brendan Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:30 pm EDT

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    @giggs --
    Staal is a -5, but he's out there on every PK (unless he is in the box, which is when the other team usually scores on the PP). He's 14 YEARS younger than St. Oldie down there in Tampa. Whitney (26) would be an ideal replacement for Boyle (because Meszaros has worked out oh so nicely). Therrien has played Whitney as more of a defensive minded D-man as of late, especially after the playoffs last year. Whitney had 59 pts in 06-07 and 40 last year, but has lost most of this season due to injury, but you can't just count this years stats when making a trade. A players' potential is one of the key components of a trade. The only potential St. Louis has is to tank like Miro Satan.

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