Puck Daddy - NHL

Last Friday, we published a post about the divergent attendance and enthusiasm trends in the NHL vs. the NBA. It has sparked some wide-ranging debate, and I'm due on Rogers Sportsnet's Prime Time Sports to discuss it tonight. Sports Media Watch has a post on the topic week with some really interesting numbers and insights, including how razor-thin the margin is between the NBA and NHL in average attendance:

During the 2007-08 season, the NBA averaged 17,396 fans per game, compared to 17,268 for the NHL. Through November 24 of this year, using the most recent data compiled from ESPN.com, the NBA is edging the NHL in average attendance, 17,178 to 17,119.

Two considerations here: First, does that NHL average attendance include the 71,217 that watched the Winter Classic between the Pittsburgh Penguins and Buffalo Sabres? Obviously, that number could have some effect, even if averaged out over 2,460 games; it did for Buffalo.

But it's a disservice to the NHL to treat the Classic as a statistical aberration -- the League took a chance on a New Year's Day game and reaped the rewards. Maybe this is viewed through puck-colored glasses, but a comparable matchup in the NBA, like the Lakers at the Suns in a stadium, isn't pulling 71,000 fans.

Second consideration, and this is an important one: NBA arenas universally have higher capacities than arenas configured for hockey. Take the Air Canada Centre in Toronto: Basketball capacity is 19,800, and hockey capacity is 18,819. The Leafs already play to over-capacity crowds; hell, they could probably surpass the capacity of Montreal's building (21,273) if given the chance.

Sports Media Watch acknowledges that the trends are all in the NHL's favor right now:

What cannot be disputed is that the NHL's attendance is on an upward trend, while the NBA's is on a downward trend. Through November 10, NHL attendance was up 1.2% compared to the same period last year. During the 2007-08 season, NHL attendance was up 1.8%, while NBA attendance was down 2.1%.

What can be taken from this? The NBA still has higher attendance than the NHL, and while NBA attendance has been declining in the past two seasons, last year's average attendance still ranked among the best in league history. The NHL does take the lead in terms of filling its arenas to capacity; 20 NHL teams play to 90% capacity, compared to 17 for the NBA.

Ah, but try telling that to a bitter, dismissive NBA blogger.

Over on my old stomping grounds at AOL FanHouse, Eric McErlain expanded on our NHL vs. NBA coverage, adding that "I can't help but enjoy seeing the hoops crowd on the hot seat for once. Enjoy the spotlight; here's hoping you don't melt."

This didn't sit well with FanHouse NBA blogger Brett Edwards, who penned a rebuttal titled "On the Hilarious Insecurity of Hockey Fans." (Honestly, as a hockey fan for the better part of 31 years, I can tell you there's nothing hilarious about it. Especially when you're a Devils fan, too.) He attempts to explain away the NBA's declining attendance with a baffling theory:

There's a very simple reason that attendance has declined in the NBA, and it has nothing to do with the sport's fans losing interest. It's because the NBA is available on a wide variety of television networks that people have actually heard of and have access to. The NBA is on ESPN Wednesdays and Fridays, TNT on Thursdays, and on ABC every Sunday beginning in January. Oh, and the late stages of the playoffs and Finals are also nationally televised on ABC. The NHL? They have that big network contract with ... Versus, which can be found on channel five-hundred-and-something on your local cable or satellite provider. Maybe.

To summarize: More people go to NHL games than NBA games because basketball has better national television deals than hockey does.

To summarize a bit more: This is pretty much the dumbest premise for a debate point I've read in a long, long time.

It's completely ignorant of the modern sports television landscape. The NHL's television exposure isn't limited to Versus and the occasional game on NBC. The NBA's television coverage isn't limited to TNT, ESPN and ABC. Both leagues have local cable television coverage for virtually every game of the season via Comcast, Fox Sports Net, MSG and other carriers. That's not evening counting the PPV/In Demand packages for both leagues that give fans nearly every game for every team on every night.

Again, to revisit the theory: The Washington Capitals played the Minnesota Wild on Versus last night, so the other 28 fan bases are then motivated to visit their local arenas.

Edwards doesn't provide any empirical or circumstantial evidence to support this idea, because he'd have to invent it.

His theory seems to be founded on the notion that less television coverage equals more desire to spend money and go to the arena. In McErlain's response to Edwards on FanHouse, he takes on this theory with two words: Bill Wirtz. From E-Mac:

It was the aforementioned Wirtz who agreed with this line of thinking till the day that he died -- namely, that televised sports would kill attendance at the gate. But if that was the case, shouldn't the NFL be suffering at the gate too? After all, you can get NFL football on Thursdays, Saturdays, Sundays and Mondays on a variety of cable and broadcast outlets. Yet I don't seem to detect any drop in average attendance -- or at least any reporting of it.

It should also be noted that the Blackhawks have been devastated by the lifting of their Dollar Bill television blackout, to the tune of leading the NHL in average attendance this season. D'oh!

So now we're counting down to the next round in this fight, in which NBA fans point to television ratings that eclipse those for the NHL in the U.S.

To which hockey fans will fire back with our usual rejoinder: Hey, imagine if those ratings counted six of the most motivated fan bases in the League that are located in Canada and are out of the equation?

Including Montreal and Toronto in the attendance fight put the NHL either neck-and-neck or over the top against the NBA. Fact is that leaving them out of the television picture would be like the NBA not having New York and Los Angeles in its ratings game.

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  1. Al S.
    1. Posted by Al S. Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:51 pm EDT

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    Don't worry Wysh. Bettman has seen the numbers and him and Stern are surely working on some plan to make things right with the world. Because Bettman's sole purpose is to keep the NHL firmly under the NBA.
  2. Big Bird
    2. Posted by Big Bird Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:33 pm EDT

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    Bert and Ernie like hockey better, too.
    My man snuf dunks with his trunk though...ballin' outrageous. He's a lost cause.
  3. Tacks
    3. Posted by Tacks Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:51 pm EDT

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    That, or the average person has no interest whatsoever in watching a thug fest anymore. Google "nba allstar game vegas" for more details.
  4. Tardell Scorpion
    4. Posted by Tardell Scorpion Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:47 pm EDT

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    as a fan of both sports, i have to hold my bias to hockey. attendance or not, the NBA is run like crap and takes far too long for any semblance of parity to show up. you can wait decades to even sniff a playoff spot and based on the fake ref home field advantage and other bogus rules that cater to team/player specific nonsense (protecting their shoe salesmen) - its a flat out waste of my time. even with some of the shoddy penalty calls in the NHL as of late, its never a "free point" by any means. if the NBA shaped up its rules where parity was apparent, id be more inclined to pay attention.
  5. .................................................!
    5. Posted by .................................................! Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:44 pm EDT

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    Here's another reason his theory is asinine: the NBA television availability has been the same for a decade! So why in the last few years has attendance declined? Are people suddenly now able to afford basic cable in these last few years?
  6. jibblescribbits
    6. Posted by jibblescribbits Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:34 pm EDT

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    NBA fans calling NHL fans insecure is kind of like Red Wings fans complaining about other fans being annoying.
  7. colin c
    7. Posted by colin c Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:50 pm EDT

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    What everyone knows but noone wants to say is the NBA embraced a ghetto mindset, along with embraced a thug mentality right around the arriva of AI. the Jordans, Hakeem O., and even Barkleys of the league who were well spoken, respectful, and mainstream were retiring or getting less attention for the shoot first, beat your chest, pose for the camera tpes that followed (look at Koby post raping/buying way out fiasco). Who wants to pay a chunk of money to take their kids to watch guys who if they were on a dark street you would cross to avoid curse and posture over each other? too much and1 and no sportsmanship or respect. Hockey has violence and for all the 'hit from behind players should resect each other' we hear abut, bottom line is Hockey is still the only sport shwing an ounce of the lessons sports are supposed to teach.
  8. Matt R
    8. Posted by Matt R Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:54 pm EDT

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    Rubbing shoulders with Bob McCown? Look at you, moving up in the world...good for you Wysh.
  9. Jon A
    9. Posted by Jon A Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:11 pm EDT

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    Jibblescribbits: that's called The Sean Avery Trophy by the way. Awarded to the blogger who best exemplifies douchity.
  10. carl_vs_mastershake
    10. Posted by carl_vs_mastershake Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:18 pm EDT

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    What is an NBA? Is that that activity that goes on in my hockey rink the days before and after my hockey team plays?
  11. HockeyJoe
    11. Posted by HockeyJoe Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:24 pm EDT

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    Bitterness runs deep for jibblescribbits, this is part of mandated therapy.
  12. Neil
    12. Posted by Neil Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:06 pm EDT

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    @ Wyshynski,
    Any idea about the subscription numbers for NHL Center Ice vs. NBA League Pass?
  13. demondg1
    13. Posted by demondg1 Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:41 pm EDT

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    The NBA has some of the best athletes in the world. Sadly, basketball is boring and the players are unlikeable.
    The only time basketball fans notice hockey is when something ugly happens or there's a big brawl. Ironic that hockey fans only notice basketball when something ugly happens or there's a big brawl.
  14. Jon A
    14. Posted by Jon A Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:11 pm EDT

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    Neil: that's an interesting question. I'm curious of the answer as well.
  15. Johnny Appleseed
    15. Posted by Johnny Appleseed Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:39 pm EDT

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    If this is true, then once hockey gets games on national television on a contintual basis, average attendence should drop.
    Yeah. Makes perfect sense. [/sarcasm]
  16. Sobu
    16. Posted by Sobu Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 pm EDT

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    The NBA fans just can't stand the idea that they're not as popular as they think they are. It's a hit to their ego, where hockey, being from Canada, has no ego and is polite to every person who comes near it.
    If they were people the NBA would push the NHL aside and the NHL would reply "I'm sorry," Ala Canadian Bacon.
  17. jibblescribbits
    17. Posted by jibblescribbits Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:34 pm EDT

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    Mr. Edwards,
    What you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the blogosphere is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
    @Jon A: One of the (many) things that makes Wings fans annoying --- The inability to take a joke, or have any sense of humor.
  18. books
    18. Posted by books Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:22 pm EDT

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    I think I'd rather hit myself repeatedly in the nuts with a hammer or have my in-laws move in for a month than be forced to watch a basketball game. It's a lot like baseball...fun to play but about as exciting to watch as the accounting theory class I was forced to take in University. (I still find myself staring at bright lights and drooling for unknown periods of time thanks to that scholastic labotomy.)
  19. zebraderby
    19. Posted by zebraderby Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:26 pm EDT

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    What professional "basketball" are we talking about? All I have ever seen on the tube is the WWF on hardwood. And the games are about as straight as the wrestling matches.
  20. Saro G
    20. Posted by Saro G Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:46 pm EDT

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    The picture inspired me to find a good solution for this dispute. No holds-barred Texas hold 'em between MJ and Mrs. Gretzky. Winner take all.
  21. Anthony A
    21. Posted by Anthony A Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:56 pm EDT

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    @ jibblescribbits I couldn't agree with you more well put ! Their creativity of the same "cindy" crosby reference in every post is mind boggling and tiresome not to mention corny and the hatred they have for a team they play twice a year is utterly confusing.
    All you Wings fans can suck my A$S
    GO Sharks!
  22. turtle8142000
    22. Posted by turtle8142000 Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:25 pm EDT

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    Why go out and buy my own car when I can watch Nascar instead?
  23. turtle8142000
    23. Posted by turtle8142000 Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:25 pm EDT

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    Dear Cd T:
    http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/1/19/full/890.gif
    The need to elaborate is non-existent.
  24. books
    24. Posted by books Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:22 pm EDT

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    @CD T- You may wish to rethink your comment that the NHL has never changed anything (what we don't just have 6 teams anymore?)...further the statement "continues to get better" implies change. :)
  25. finaticincotati
    25. Posted by finaticincotati Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:00 pm EDT

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    This little tiff has me shaking my head in dismay. First of all, are we talking about NHL vs. NBA, or hockey vs. basketball? If we're strictly talking about NHL vs. NBA, yes, the NHL seems to be slowly overtaking it in terms of attendance. But, if were talking about hockey vs. basketball, basketball is still way more popular in the U.S. Has anyone ever heard of a thing called March Madness? Every year I'm amazed at how much attention and fan interest in generates, which needless to say is far more than the NHL generates in the U.S.
    Secondly, I don't understand what's so good about the NHL growing and becoming more mainstream. To try to make the game more widely popular, Bettman and Co. are continually changing the rules and tinkering with something, that frankly, was almost perfect the way it was. Nowadays, even the slightest amount of contact becomes a "hooking" or a "roughing" call that results in a penalty, players can't protect their teammates due to the instigator penalty, there are no battles in front of the net because the defenders can't move a guy out without getting called for interference, both the fans and players strut around in those ugly, $300 edge jerseys that look like cycling gear, and it costs an arm and leg to take the family to the game. The NHL was better when it had more of a cult than a mainstream following. Just my opinion.

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