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MONTREAL -- After completing his trade for Anaheim Ducks defenseman Chris Pronger(notes) on Friday night, Philadelphia Flyers GM Paul Holmgren was asked by a reporter if the move sent a "message" to the Pittsburgh Penguins that "Crosby and Malkin won't have that kind of freedom running your goaltender like they did" during the playoffs.

Holmgren said bluntly: "I'm not trying to send any messages here. Pittsburgh's the Stanley Cup champions and that's a heck of an accomplishment. There's a lot of good teams in our conference, as well as the Western Conference. We're trying to win, and adding Chris Pronger helps us."

So while the Flyers weren't sending a message to the Penguins in particular, they are sending a message to the rest of the Eastern Conference with this trade: They believe they are putting together a championship-caliber puzzle for next season, and that they added perhaps the most vital new piece this weekend.

We hadn't dedicated a standalone post to this trade, so to clarify my take on the Pronger deal, which saw the defenseman and prospect Ryan Dingle(notes) to Philadelphia for forward Joffrey Lupul(notes), defenseman Luca Sbisa(notes), first-round picks in 2009 and 2010 and a conditional third-round pick in 2010 or 2011:

The price tag is enormous. Ask any GM or scout or agent at the draft, and they'd tell you the same thing. But there's a difference between the price being "too high" and being one that isn't worth paying. The Flyers paid the price, and it's a risk worth taking.

It's true that Pronger is an aging star (he'll be 35 in October) in decline. It's true that he's got only one year left on his deal, and there are no promises that he'll be a Flyer in 2011.

But acquiring Pronger gives the Flyers something that the Detroit Red Wings and the Ducks themselves proved vital to success in the postseason: Two stellar defensive pairings.

Pronger and whatever D-man he's pairing with will be one; Braydon Coburn(notes) and the vastly underappreciated Kimmo Timonen(notes) is the other. In a conference that has some elite teams with multiple lines of offensive weaponry -- the Penguins as the obvious example -- having that defensive talent to match is essential.

Pronger will make a very good power play even better. He's also a player that, despite his obvious discretions in the past, endears himself to teammates for exacting revenge on opponents with physical play ... and the occasional cheap shot along the way. (Gotta love Pronger acknowledging he basically plays "Flyers hockey.")

The risk isn't giving up a slew of draft picks and a top-flight defensive prospect for potentially one year of Pronger; the Flyers are stacked to the point where those picks will be low, and a player like Sbisa is the kind of asset you surrender when you're going for the Cup.

No, the risk is that the Philadelphia Flyers are once again doing exactly as they did in the 1990s. They're loaded at forward with players like Mike Richards(notes), Jeff Carter(notes) and Danny Briere(notes) (health be damned and if he's still around). They're now stacked on the blue line with the addition of Pronger. Yet they're going to make a run with, for the moment, inferior goaltending. Lindros used to have night terrors about this scenario, and yet it appears to be playing out again.

That said: The Pronger trade is an aggressive move that, frankly, could pay off in the short term better than Jay Bouwmeester(notes) would have in the long term.

Here's some of the Philly faithful on this trade starting with Broad Street Hockey, which published five "talking points" about the move:

Action Over Inaction - In 2008, the Flyers were knocked out of the playoffs by the Penguins in five games and made relatively few off-season moves.  In 2009, the Flyers were knocked out of the playoffs by the Penguins in six games and have already made huge waves by before free agency even begins by acquiring Chris Pronger and Ray Emery(notes) Whether you agree with the trade or not, the lack of complacency is apparent.  The dissatisfaction Paul Holmgren and the rest of the Flyers staff have with last season's result is obvious, despite the fact that the team was a three goal cushion away from pushing the eventual champions to a Game 7. Some may call the reaction it reassuring urgency and commitment to improving, while others may see it as hasty scrambling that reeks of desperation.  Or perhaps both.

The 700 Level had a great analysis after the deal, with Matt P. generally endorsing the trade:

Regardless of your thoughts on what the Flyers gave up, it's hard to argue that their defense isn't significantly improved, both in terms of size and skill. They also added years to their cumulative playoff experience. When considering any potential points loss in trading away Lupul's 25 and 25, remember that Giroux will get more ice time with better players, and Pronger adds a ton of points to a blue line that often lacked offensive punch. Overall, we're ready to give Homer the benefit of the doubt on the deal, and we're excited to see Pronger in a Flyers uniform. Defensive players of his caliber are very hard to come by, and before judging heavily, remember that there are probably still moves to come.

Sam Carchidi of the Philadelphia Inquirer played devil's advocate:

But the move was risky on several fronts.

A boatload of young talent was traded. Moreover, Pronger is in the final year of a contract that will pay him $6.25 million. There are no assurances that he will stay beyond this season, though Holmgren is eager to negotiate an extension, and Pronger's agent, Pat Morris, is optimistic that a long-term deal can get done.

The trade also leaves the Flyers with precious little salary-cap space. They are about $5 million under the new $56.8 million cap - and still have to add a backup goalie, a right winger (they want to re-sign Mike Knuble(notes), who has drawn interest from the Penguins), and perhaps another defenseman and a fourth-line center adept at winning face-offs.

Finally, Ryan from Flyers Goal Scored By couldn't believe his eyes:

I'm still all like "really?" Will I look back on this screen shot above and think "that's when the Flyers made that move that won them the Cup?"

That the question can be asked shows what an impact this gamble is already having.

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298 Comments

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  1. Cousin Mose
    1. Posted by Cousin Mose Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:20 pm EDT

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    Stupid trade Flyers. Now you have too little cap space and gave up too much of your future for an aging blue liner. And no matter how much you improve the D (which Pronger will do, if only for 1 year) you have an alcoholic goalie ready to surrender 6 goals a game on the softest of shots. No way this helps you get past the Pens, or the 2nd round next year.
  2. neat1325
    2. Posted by neat1325 Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:21 pm EDT

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    Only time will tell on this move. That paired with the rounding out of the roster. We will see what happens. I do not think Homer is done yet and July 1 is going to be interesting.
  3. i4ni
    3. Posted by i4ni Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:22 pm EDT

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    It definitely sends a message to every team in the NHL that the Flyers are going all out to prove they are a contender this year. I can't disagree and this trade alone makes almost every team in the East/Atlantic nervous and has those teams taking second guesses at their roster regarding toughness. That being said, as I said before, having Emery and Pronger - two guys known for attitude and questionable play - might hurt the Flyers who already are in the spotlight and considered the Broad Street Bullies still. This trade has definite potential and I know Flyer fans are anxious to get the season started right now with their current roster. I just wish we would have kept one of either Asham or Janssen considering this trade.
  4. Tom K
    4. Posted by Tom K Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:28 pm EDT

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    From a Ducks fan POV, I think Bob Murray made a fantasic move. We've been stagnant the last two years trying to recapture the Stanley Cup magic of 2007....and it just wasn't working. Getting younger, AND keeping a competetive team, is the best of all worlds. He's done a great job of spreading out the talent, working the cap issues, and giving the Ducks fans hope in a post Niedermayer-Selanne-Pronger world.
  5. Burt L
    5. Posted by Burt L Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:30 pm EDT

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    It was a huge price to pay to get Pronger. Maybe they picked him up to chauffeur Ray Emery to the rink on game day because the Ontario Provincial Police seized Mr. Emery's wheels. If so, please remind Mr. Pronger that Emery has a phobia of hats.
  6. btumpak
    6. Posted by btumpak Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:32 pm EDT

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    HORIBBLE
    Lupul first-round picks in 2009 and 2010
    ARE YOU KIDDING ME? This isn't a young, proven defenseman- it's old balls.
    hahahahhahaha
  7. tune433
    7. Posted by tune433 Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:36 pm EDT

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    Lupul had his shot, flyers have always had the habit of re-acquiring young talent that got away for whatever reason. Gives the flyers a season to evaluate and use Pronger and decide whether he's worth another contract. If he is, Pronger would be a fool to sign anywhere but back in Philly. If he's a true hockey player, it's not about the money at this point in his career.
  8. Garth the Hoser
    8. Posted by Garth the Hoser Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:37 pm EDT

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    Lupul = Liability.
    Sbisa = Unproven.
    Draft picks = Lottery tickets.
    Pronger = Money Player.
    Flyers win the deal, easy.
  9. wsscarlett
    9. Posted by wsscarlett Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:39 pm EDT

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    we all rate our favorite teams and the moves they make,higher than anyone else does.
    I don't like this move at all.Not because it is Philly,but because I wanted Pronger to be reunited with Burke in Toronto.Personal bias aside,this is the splash that Holmgren said he was going to make.Only time will tell if the price was too high,or just set the bar for other players in Prongers situation and teams like Philly that are not satisfied with just making the playoffs.
  10. tune433
    10. Posted by tune433 Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:41 pm EDT

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    To all the naysayers above me.
    Mark my words ... this was a great trade!
  11. Andrew P
    11. Posted by Andrew P Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:49 pm EDT

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    Lets not rationalize here... They paid TOO much for him given the circumstances.
  12. David N
    12. Posted by David N Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:56 pm EDT

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    to the idiot above me they still lack a goalie they still lack discpline as long as they keep buying into the broad street bullies mentality no single player is going to help them win. Hell give them tavares with the team mentality he will end up another lindros
  13. habs1rule
    13. Posted by habs1rule Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:58 pm EDT

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    Here's how I see the Flyers situation..Three years ago, you were tied for worst in the league, then had some really great drafts and free agent moves..And became competitive..Almost too fast!! Now you see Pittsburgh winning, and its "Panic move" time!! Slow down, you remind me of the NY Mets in baseball trying to be like the Yankees..Be yourselves, build your team and get a fricking goalie that can win you something..Why this team keeps playing other teams "Retreads" in the nets for over a decade is beyond me..
  14. Sledge Longfellow
    14. Posted by Sledge Longfellow Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:06 pm EDT

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    By dumping Lupul and his $4.25 mil contract starting next year (and I assume the same cap hit), Pronger only costs $2 mil in salary and hit. So it should be far less difficult to fit the Pronger salary in than many seem to be implying. And $4.25 mil for Lupul is grotesque. He is no great loss and certainly not an "established top six forward" as Duck Paddy would have us believe. An "established middle-six" forward is more believable. Without top line-mates his game disappears and he's just another 3rd-liner. [See: Oilers, Edmonton] On Anaheim he should slot in behind Perry and Selanne on the depth chart and do his usual defensively-inept lackadasical disappearing act.
  15. Bob
    15. Posted by Bob Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:06 pm EDT

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    Yeah he sent a message to Pitt and the rest of the league.I am an idiot,I gave away some quality young talent to get an aging defenseman with a one year contract.
  16. Bob
    16. Posted by Bob Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:09 pm EDT

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    Hey number 3,the one thing the Flyers rarely lack is toughness.Mental toughness yes,physical toughness no.So getting Pronger,even if he has a career year is just a plain bad deal.
  17. cmt-209
    17. Posted by cmt-209 Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:10 pm EDT

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    hey philly reminds me of the BIG GOOF hatcher hopefully pronger can catch malkin and crosby but i doubt it have fun watching pronger and emery trying to carry the bunch of nobodies to anything other than another playoff series loss to the CHAMPS (THE PITTSBURG PENS)
  18. Garth
    18. Posted by Garth Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:10 pm EDT

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    "Yet they're going to make a run with, for the moment, inferior goaltending."
    I think you spelled "Stanley Cup Finals" goaltending" wrong...
  19. cc
    19. Posted by cc Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:11 pm EDT

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    This is a good trade for the Flyers, but there are a few risks that you fail to mention. 1) Injury: you invest this much in one guy at his age, and that's a potential problem. Though Pronger has been durable most of his career. 2) Flyers reputation: With adding Pronger and Emery to the Flyers, you have to wonder if there aren't too many borderline psychos on this club for the Bettman NHL. Philly may find themselves permanently shorthanded, especially against Pittsburgh.
    Besides that, I think it's a dynamic move for the Flyers that will make an already difficult team even harder to play against. I should know - as a Ranger fan I really, really hate this trade.
  20. colin c
    20. Posted by colin c Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:16 pm EDT

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    Pronger is getting way to slow for the league. He will not have neidermeir there to kill his penalties.
    Bright side maybe we will get to see him and chara go.
    Philly should have found a much more mobile puck moving younger defenseman.
  21. Christopher A
    21. Posted by Christopher A Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:18 pm EDT

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    I doesn't matter who you trade for unless it is somebody the NHL wants to sell to commercials of Gatorade to endorse( Cindy Crosby) than you haven't bought the Cup yet. I watched hockey for 28 years and baseball and football for that long and never saw a championship more bought than that one I won't be watching next year or probably never again. So I say to flyers faithful why do you care it is clear the league never wants the Flyers to win so stop hurting yourself like me and go cheer for sports that aren't so political.
  22. i4ni
    22. Posted by i4ni Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:31 pm EDT

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    Bob, as a Devils fan, I know year in and year out the Flyers are always a tough team to face. Most teams' 4th lines consist of unproven players looking to earn a spot on the roster or are other teams castoff's. Teams like the Flyers and Devils have guys like Asham, Clarkson, Rupp, Cote, etc. I don't know if this deal is bad or not, I'll refrain from making clairvoyant remarks until I see how it actually pans out on the ice. From a salary cap standpoint, the Flyers improved their team as far as defensemen go. Considering the "love" Lupul is getting now that he's gone, the draft picks are a concern because we don't know how deep or how much quality next years draft will have. It's a definite "win now" scenario, but it's not like the Flyers will go back to being a cellar-dwellar if this trade doesn't pan out - they're still a young and hungry team. As much as I hate to give the Flyers respect, it is deserved.. even if this is a Clarke move. If they re-sign Biron they'll have reason to be confident and excited this coming season.
  23. colin c
    23. Posted by colin c Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:31 pm EDT

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    @Chris A, what sport exactly are you refering too?
    they are all politics (look at Kobe/Lebron, the mannings, Yankees/sox for your big 3) though that still does not mean the NHL spoon fed the pens a championship. Phill always loses because philly embraces an old image that they will not let go of, the broad street bully one, and it does not translate into cups. Clarke stepping down has helped but they then immediately went out and got ANOTHER thug.
    Too bad since they were on the right track last season, they just needed experience.
  24. Strikers09
    24. Posted by Strikers09 Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:34 pm EDT

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    From a Penguin fan all I have to say is... THANK YOU PHILLY!
    This move made the Pens even better. Pronger isn't going to improve your Team next year. Pronger is old, and Pronger has not played in the East. He won't keep teams from exposing the Flyers goaltending for what it is... atrocious.
    Pronger will be abused by the quick skating teams of the East. So thank you Philly for giving up two great players that would have been a thorn in the side of the Pens for years, for a guy that won't improve your teams weakest point.
  25. Coffeeman
    25. Posted by Coffeeman Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:36 pm EDT

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    As a full-time Flyer fan, I think Homer walked the walk: no excuses, we're going for the Cup. After publicly telling his coach that the Flyers' approach was not aggressive enough, Holmgren's move showed what he was talkin' about. Stevens is officially on the clock: succeed or you are moving on. As to the trade, it will depend on one thing: does Pronger sign for an extension. Bet on it. Pronger's agent Morris has a very good relationship with the team, in fact he was quoted as saying that he would have tried to get Pronger to the Flyers when St. Louis was forced to trade him, but the Flyers were never given the opportunity by St. Louis. And finally, Pronger will supply heaps of "attitude". Contrary to the media's branding, the Flyers were not the Broad Street Bullies, in fact, with the addition of Kunitz and Cooke, the Penguins were far more physical; you just wouldn't know it because the Penguins are looked at differently by the League: just ask the Red Wings.

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