Puck Daddy - NHL

The Detroit Red Wings obviously have bigger fish to fry these days, but Crain's has some great coverage today of a potentially franchise-altering decision looming this summer for the Wings ownership regarding Joe Louis Arena: Mike Ilitch has "until June 30 to tell Detroit if he will modernize the 30-year-old, city-owned arena or construct a new venue that likely would cost $200 million to $300 million."

Yes, in an economy where everyone but the pawn shops needs a bailout and even NFL teams could be bleeding dollars in the coming years.

The Joe Louis lease expires July 1, 2010, but the Ilitch family has to declare its intentions this summer. Their decision is one steeped in the political mess that is Detroit, which the Crain's story spells out better than we ever could.

But the two most intriguing factors at play in potentially leaving the Joe: What the city gains and loses if the Wings move to a new arena, and how the Ilitch family would finance such a venture when it's hard to borrow money to buy a Mazda let alone an 18,000 seat hockey arena.

On the financing front, the current economic climate makes the credit needed for an arena project tough to come by. The Wings could ask for an extension on their decision; or they could do this, according to Crain's:

One of them is financing a new stadium through a combination of private money from the Ilitches and taxpayer money through an extension of local hotel and car-rental taxes - the formula that financed Comerica Park [where the Detroit Tigers play].

A new stadium offers the team more revenue from additional suites and corporate sponsorships. Debt financing by the team is iffy at best and has hampered stadium projects elsewhere in the country.

As popular as the Wings are, the use of any tax money -- sales or otherwise -- on a stadium project in stimulus times is going to be a tough sell.

What about a new lease for a new stadium? As Crain's points, out, Detroit could start charging for police and landscaping services (currently provided for free), and could collect property taxes beyond the current cap of $252,000 annually. But the city would risk losing ticket, concession and suites surcharges depending on where the financing comes from.

Then again, if the Red Wings renew the lease and renovate the Joe, according to Crain's "the city immediately loses the ticket taxes and in five years loses the surcharge on concessions and suites." So maybe a new arena would be in Detroit's best interest.

The two Crain's stories -- about the lease decisions and about the future of the Joe if the Wings leave -- come highly recommended for those who are fascinated by how these arena deals come about.

For example: Would there be a chance in hell this year that Prudential Financial Inc., would but the naming rights to the New Jersey Devils' arena for $105.3 million over 20 years?

Speaking of the Devils, a question for the Wings fans who read the blog. The contention in Jersey was always that an antiquated arena contributed to the team's inconsistent (and usually underwhelming) attendance.

While most of the talk about empty seats in Detroit comes back to "it's the economy, stupid," would a new, state-of-the-art arena have an impact? In other words: Does the Joe contribute, at all, to some of the team's attendance issues?

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243 Comments

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  1. Hans Gruber
    1. Posted by Hans Gruber Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:58 pm EDT

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    Build a new arena in Windsor and problem is solved.
  2. theonlydoublej
    2. Posted by theonlydoublej Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:04 pm EDT

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    Love the Joe, but the city needs a new arena, the construction and labor put into making it would be a huge boost.
  3. firewing
    3. Posted by firewing Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:01 pm EDT

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    dont worry about the wings ownership. thay have always done the right thing and im sure they are working on the details to get this right also. besides there is nothing wrong with the joe. always have a great time at the games.
    parking is easy and all the vendors are willing to go out of their way to help you. the staff is first rate all the time.
  4. Jake
    4. Posted by Jake Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:27 pm EDT

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    A problem with the Joe and the empty seats is that corporations bought all of the good seats as more of a status symbol than as fans. The empty seats are bought and paid for, but the people with the tickets don’t show up. I know a guy who gets tickets up close all the time but never goes. Corporations have the good tickets, and the true blue collar fans are left with nothing. That is also why it is so quit in there.
    THE JOE HAS TO GO!!!! That place is so outdated. If you have a few beers and go to use the bathroom you can count on missing at least the first five minutes of the following period. After going to a few other arenas then coming back to the Joe it really reminds you where you are…. A forgotten, crappy, outdated, dark and drab, ran-down city. I guess in that sentiment it resembles Detroit.
  5. Kristopher A
    5. Posted by Kristopher A Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:44 pm EDT

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    It affects it a little, maybe. I think people have a lot of love for the Joe, though, despite it's flaws. I hope to God if we get a new arena, it'd still be called Joe Louis Arena; it just wouldn't feel right and Detroit would lose a little bit of history if we did.
  6. kstewy16
    6. Posted by kstewy16 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:54 pm EDT

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    Just tell people your moving to Kansas City and suddenly everything will fall into place and 300 million dollars will suddenly "appear" for you to build a new arena.
    Crude business technique, but it gets the job done.
  7. Hollywood
    7. Posted by Hollywood Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:30 pm EDT

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    I think a new arena would help but it would probably only be a temporary boost until the novelty wears off. The only real way to get fans back in the seats is for the economy to get better so people actually have money to go to the games again. I will say this those though Joe Louis Arena is definitely is outdated. The seats are small, the area around the rink where the vendors are just has this damp dark look to it. It's not bright and clean looking like new stadiums. Even in the bathrooms you don't have individual urinals, you still have the old school troughs.
  8. MALKINTENT 71
    8. Posted by MALKINTENT 71 Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:06 pm EDT

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    just ask obama for the money hes spending alot these days!
  9. Scott
    9. Posted by Scott Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:29 pm EDT

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    People aren't going to the Joe because tickets for the Wings are always overpriced. Sure, the venue sucks, but no one in metro-Detroit can afford their mortgages, bills, insurance payments, rent, etc., let alone $30 a pop to sit in the back of the upper-bowl. In short, a new arena would rule, but people in Detroit and the suburbs can't afford crap as it is.
    We'd all rather save up for post-season tickets than watch a Detroit-Phoenix or Detroit-Minnesota game that, for all intents and purposes, is just one of 41 games we could see. Spend money on essentials, or watching Detroit play a rather uninteresting opponent? I think I'll use that dough on something else. Besides - you can always watch the Wings on FSN Detroit, and those broadcasts rule (thanks to Ken Daniels and Mickey Redmond).
    Yes, the Joe sucks. But not many people can afford anything in Detroit. It's just gotten to point where things are so bad in the D that no one wants to pay that much money when they have other things to worry about. Trust me, all the Wings fans I know hate the Joe, but we went anyway - it was the Wings, for Stevie Y's sake! Why not go? We just can't afford to do that 1-2 times a month, or even 1-2 times a season now. I only went to one game this season because they had an offer of 2 tickets, 2 hot dogs, and 2 pops for $44. Otherwise, it's expensive as hell.
    Build an arena, lease the Joe for longer...who cares. It won't mean anything unless you can draw people to the arena without burning holes in their wallets.
  10. Brian S (brianguy)
    10. Posted by Brian S (brianguy) Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:14 pm EDT

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    it's En Fuego
  11. Ogie!
    11. Posted by Ogie! Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:20 pm EDT

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    A new arena would be awesome. Love the Joe. But it's time. I need more leg room and drink holders in the seat in front of me.
  12. M
    12. Posted by M Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:59 pm EDT

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    Detroit has always had great attendance even in that outdated arena. Building a new stadium might attract a few new new patrons but it is inevitable that ticket prices will increase. For every new patron you will out price 3 that have been coming regardless of the arena. They should have built 500 million into the auto bailout. Either way , so much for the argument of needing a new facility to be competitive. That is junk you hear in most of the other cities.
  13. NYR34
    13. Posted by NYR34 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:24 pm EDT

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    This faced the Rangers and MSG management last year, where the Garden and the US Postal hub next door were going to essentially switch places. They went the renovation route, which seemed to satisfy all of the fans.
    The thing with the Joe is that it's got a sort of aura to it that baseball fields sometime have. Weird because the Olympia is where the hallowed greats played and all, but the Joe sort of has a sort of personality to it. Would that personality carry over to a new building? Maybe. You can throw an octupus onto any rink, except of course Wrigley.
  14. NYR34
    14. Posted by NYR34 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:24 pm EDT

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    Just tell people your moving to Kansas City and suddenly everything will fall into place and 300 million dollars will suddenly "appear" for you to build a new arena.
    Pure NHL anti-relocation win.
  15. Gary D
    15. Posted by Gary D Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:08 pm EDT

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    @kstewy
    Doubt it would work with the Wings though.Original 6,loyal fanbase.Everyone and their councilman's dog knows they're not going anywhere.As much as an idiot as he is I think Bettman would finance the thing himself if by some increidbly remote chance they even mentioned a city other then Detroit.
  16. Tim K
    16. Posted by Tim K Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:14 pm EDT

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    Andrew, just throwing this out there... nothing you ever say is value-added. Is your goal to be the biggest douche on the board?
  17. Paul C
    17. Posted by Paul C Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:04 pm EDT

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    The irony of increasing the price of hotels and rental cars in the city of Detroit is somewhat amusing.
    Pretty soon, you'll be able to buy a house and a Ford Focus for less than it costs to get a room at the Super 8 and a rental.
  18. M
    18. Posted by M Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:59 pm EDT

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    wings fans take note, If they do get a new stadium it will never be the same. Not only do the seats stay the same size, yes you will get a cup holder, but you move farther from the ice, the building absorbs the noise, naming rights are inevitable and whatever snobs have enough money to pay the higher prices only go to the game to hob-knob. They are tearing down my spectrum this summer, it has never been the same. But I'm not bitter!
  19. Jon A
    19. Posted by Jon A Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:11 pm EDT

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    Cue: Anthrax Jones' signature bullshlt.
    @ Malkintent: haha good point except for the problem is Ilitch is a hard-working, responsible American who has worked hard and smart to get where he is today. Not a snowball's chance in Jamaica that Obama will bail out his @ss.
  20. j0ehoe
    20. Posted by j0ehoe Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:26 pm EDT

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    The Rock is an amazing stadium, and if it wasn't in such a hole, would attract a lot more people. Even with the security detail along the path to parking, people still don't like going there.
    Point in case: Wysh, would you bring your kid out for a fun day in Newark??
    And where's your AMERICAN PRIDE!!!(hurr) Mazda over Ford in an article about Motorcity
  21. habs1rule
    21. Posted by habs1rule Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:15 pm EDT

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    Dear Detroit, I love you madly, and boy, do I have an offer you cant refuse..We have a lovely building up here called the Bell Center, luxury boxes, great facility, we just have a stink ass team right now. Come up for a visit, bring your team with you, and if you like the arrangements, stay awhile. We will get rid of whats currently occupying the joint, trust me.
  22. habs1rule
    22. Posted by habs1rule Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:15 pm EDT

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    Kansas City is like the orphanage my mom always told me she would send me if I was bad, Its more of a threat than a promise.
  23. N. Y. NIGHTMARE
    23. Posted by N. Y. NIGHTMARE Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:06 pm EDT

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    wysh u read crain's, im impressed
  24. wot's..uh the deal
    24. Posted by wot's..uh the deal Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:37 pm EDT

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    FIRST, as a resident of Michigan currently living in Ann Arbor I would say the the drop in attendance is due to the economy. Why? Simple, even though the Wings are winning look at the past few years before the Lockout, they were selling out and winning games and the economy was good. SECOND, yes the Joe is old and yes it could use some renovation. I've been to a few new arenas and all of them are nice, and big, and spacious but the lack character. If a new arena is to be built it will most likely be in the area by Comerica Park and Ford Field due to Illich Holdings ownership of large pieces of land. THIRD ticket prices while a bit high are also hampered by the fact that getting tickets not owned by a season ticket holder is not easy. They sell mini season ticket packages and you are left with SRO and scattered tickets here and there so a larger arena with more seats might be good to bring in more people. FINALLY, as much as I'd like to see a new arena, if the Joe can be renovated and keep it's charm while offering more then I'm all for it.
  25. Paul C
    25. Posted by Paul C Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:04 pm EDT

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    the irony of increasing the price of hotels and rental cars in the city of detroit is somewhat amusing.
    pretty soon, you'll be able to buy a house and a ford focus for less than it costs to get a room at the super 8 and a rental.

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