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Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:31 pm EST

Whaddayouthink: Should Shaq be suspended for flagrant on Amir?

By J.E. Skeets

One thing to keep in mind before watching this video: the Pistons got away with some pretty good hits on the Suns right before Shaq fouled Amir Johnson. The referees weren’t blowing the whistles. That's your mini-set-up.

Jeff Van Gundy -- as well as Fan House blogger Brett Edwards -- think the refs should have called a flagrant two on Shaq. To quote Edwards: "There was no attempt to make any kind of play on the ball, it was simply a forearm to the chest meant to take out the Pistons' Amir Johnson."

I disagree. ABC’s replay angles aren’t hot, and there’s a whole of limbs going on in there, but it’s pretty clear to me that Shaq’s right arm does make a legitimate play on the ball. Now, sure, the left forearm is in the chest, and Amir definitely hits the floor hard, but that’s because Shaq has at least 120 pounds on the kid. Flagrant one was the right call. Mike Breen is my homie.

But what do you think? The league reviews all flagrant fouls. Do you think Shaq should receive a one-game suspension for the foul? Or did the refs make the right call? Let’s hear your thoughts in the comments.

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232 Comments

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  1. J M
    1. Posted by J M Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:11 pm EDT

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    Flagrant 1 for safety issues. It was a hard foul. They got it right. No suspension needed.
  2. Matt
    2. Posted by Matt Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:40 pm EDT

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    actually, whether he made a play on the ball or not doesn't really matter -- the definition of a flagrant 2 is just whether there was "unnecessary and excessive contact" ... http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_b.html?nav=articlelist
    ... and considering he clearly tried to hockey check him in mid-air, i think he should be. not that i expect the nba to side with a 20-year-old unknown over the diesel, but in a perfect world he should be.
  3. DRok
    3. Posted by DRok Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:47 pm EDT

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    nah, the diesel can throw his weight around with the best of them...it's a really hard foul but not malicious in any way.
  4. Kevin L
    4. Posted by Kevin L Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:50 pm EDT

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    i think it was a right call, it kind of looked like shaq wanted to jump to attempt to block the ball, but was winded running down the court and didn't have enough lift -since he just ran down- to get up so he ran right into Amir and shaq used his forearm to protect himself. plus shaq is a big man compared to amir
  5. J M
    5. Posted by J M Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:11 pm EDT

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    #2 That is just semantics and you know it. Unnecessary means "not needed" and excessive means "more than needed" so what are you arguing here? Everyone knows the REAL difference is purely a judgment call depending on 2 main things which are the intent to harm(malicious action) or the overall reckless nature of the foul.
    Skinny Amir went to go over Shaq and Shaq said no. Thats all that happened. Shaq has no real reason to go out and take Amir Johnson out of a game and it wasn't a reckless play by Shaq.
    This was a Flagrant 1.
  6. Trey
    6. Posted by Trey Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 pm EDT

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    It's true, Shaq had his right hand up there toward the ball, but what makes this a flagrant 2 to me is that Shaq didn't go UP toward the ball he went FORWARD towards the player. It seemed like he had no intention of slowing his momentum down. You don't play defense by running TOWARD the opposing player. that's flagrant 2.
  7. Grant E
    7. Posted by Grant E Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:28 pm EDT

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    I watched this game yesterday and I honestly don't believe that there should have been any kind of flagrant foul called. David Stern, for all the good he has done (and he is easily the best commish the association has ever had) has made this a non-contact sport. All the hand-checking is gone and nobody can breathe on anybody else anymore without it being called a foul. As a Pistons fan, I remember Bill Laimbeer getting clocked by Robert Parrish (I think in '87 EC Finals) w/o so much as a foul being called. He probably deserved it, so the refs let it slide. Shaq is a really big guy and it was simply a good hard foul to avoid any potential three-point play. I'd rather see good, physical, eighties-style basketball over the kind of crap that we watched in the '06 Finals.
  8. Gils_Keloids
    8. Posted by Gils_Keloids Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:27 pm EDT

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    Flagrant one and no suspension is fine, but if he does it in two consecutive games, they should put him on ice for a game.
  9. Colin M
    9. Posted by Colin M Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:26 pm EDT

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    First off, I would like to state that I am a huge Pistons fan, huge Amir and warming up to the jones podcast. The NBA has taken way a lot of the fire and competitiveness out of games with ticky tack flagrants and techs for slamming balls into the hoop stanchion. Grant E. said he didn't even think it was a flagrant 1. I'd say it's borderline but I definitely wouldn't have been up in arms if they'd just put him on the line for two. Fellow Amir fans check out the DetroitBadBoys.com store for sweet Amir and Maxiel gear.
  10. Alan C
    10. Posted by Alan C Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:19 pm EDT

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    One game suspension should be right. Shaq can't just go around leveling any highflying player he wants to. Imagine if Amir went up higher and then fell on his head.
  11. Odenized
    11. Posted by Odenized Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:57 pm EDT

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    I'd definitely suspend Shaq for a game for this foul. What's funny, though, is that Amir would never have made this shot if O'Neal stood there and held is ground. I've never seen Shaq take an offensive foul, so I guess that's too much to ask of the Diesel.
  12. Katman
    12. Posted by Katman Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:55 pm EDT

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    Naw. It may have been flagrant. But Amir accepted it as part of the game. Chauncy knew as soon as he fed the ball to Amir what was going to happen. It was just tough basketball. Remember when Isaiah did it to his best friend, Magic, in a championship game years ago? You invade my territory, beware! Besides, Amir will be doing it soon enough.
  13. Katman
    13. Posted by Katman Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:55 pm EDT

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    naw. it may have been flagrant. but amir accepted it as part of the game. chauncy knew as soon as he fed the ball to amir what was going to happen. it was just tough basketball. remember when isaiah did it to his best friend, magic, in a championship game years ago? you invade my territory, beware! besides, amir will be doing it soon enough.
  14. thomasdavidhalbrook
    14. Posted by thomasdavidhalbrook Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:08 pm EDT

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    no
  15. Dolfan02
    15. Posted by Dolfan02 Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:03 pm EDT

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    he didn't really do anything.
  16. Kevin
    16. Posted by Kevin Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:24 pm EDT

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    i LOATHE the ground o'neal walks on, but that wasn't a terribly flagrant foul. good acting too bad the oscars are over.
  17. chris z
    17. Posted by chris z Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:52 pm EDT

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    suspend him, if that was any other player other than Shaq the league would have already suspended him, no special treatment here
  18. image guy
    18. Posted by image guy Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:56 pm EDT

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    I am not a Suns fan but I have a lot of respect for Shaq... The one thing I will say is through his career he has taken some amazing shots himself that were either never called or were called lightly because of his size, which shouldn't have anything to do with a foul being called. Plus the refs are a joke when it comes to Shaq and don't know how to ref when he is in the game. Just watch when players flop every minute to get him out of the game... I especially like when a 6'9 center is on Shaq and the mere turn of his body causes his elbow to almost smack the guy in the head, but is he supposed to do?
    On a side note... flopping in the NBA is not an art as much as bunch of crap that the league has yet to take control over. The NHL did this and it was a great move causing players not to take dives but so far Stern is a dumbass
  19. Lin
    19. Posted by Lin Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:52 pm EDT

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    Hard but fair, flagrant 1. Why try to move a immovable object unless your are the superman?
  20. djekow
    20. Posted by djekow Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:50 pm EDT

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    People hit Shaq way harder than that throughout every game! Flagrant 1 was correct.
  21. Phuc N
    21. Posted by Phuc N Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:47 pm EDT

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    Amir wanted to posterize Shaq by flying high and slamming it down. He should have known better. Shaq is not known for beating up little guys. He will however beat you up if you were a big guy -- on the offensive end only. For a guy with elephant strength, he plays with remarkable restraint.
  22. rick p
    22. Posted by rick p Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:46 pm EDT

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    flagrant 1....it was a hard hit but not even a tenth as hard as Shaq is probably capable of and Amir Johnon's a big dude too and he bounced right back up....two shots and the ball...play on.
  23. brothabud
    23. Posted by brothabud Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:13 pm EDT

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    The Refs got the call right. Again Shaq out weights the guy by at least 120lbs. If Shaq wanted to put the guy down it would have looked a lot worse than that. Good hard foul getting ready for the play offs.
  24. .
    24. Posted by . Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:22 pm EDT

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    I thought that he was trying to make a play on the ball, but he just went about it wrong. You can tell (from the second angle, under the basket) that Shaq does make a connection with the ball, and it's just forces of nature that Amir went flying. It's like heading top speed into a brick wall and not expecting any contact. Shaq has at least 100 pounds on Amir, and you know he was expecting some contact. I say the call was good, but there is no need for a suspension, or any other disciplinary action.

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