Ball Don't Lie - NBA

Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:13 am EDT

Trading Andre Iguodala

Understand that I'm usually (if not, nearly always) pretty loathe to take on these sorts of posts, partially because I don't like reading them myself, partially because a lot of the time an NBA trade rarely works out solidly for both ends, and mostly because I'm more interested in the on-court action than off. Alas, I'm forging ahead, here. 

If the reports are correct, and they likely aren't, Andre Iguodala and the Philadelphia 76ers are at a stalemate. The guard/forward (eh, "forward") is about to enter his fifth season, he's a restricted free agent, and reports indicate he's looking for a contract in the six-year, 75 million dollar range.

Now, this could be a plant from the Sixers, or someone's educated guess (75 million would seem in line with someone who wouldn't be signed as of the first week of August), or it could be spot on. The specifics hardly matter to me, because I barely think he's worth eight figures a year. AI's a fine player, but even with the addition of Elton Brand and the continued improvement of Louis Williams, he might not be what the 76ers need. His game is a little more "Corey Maggette" than it is "Paul Pierce." A lot more. The guy has issues creating shots.

So why not cut out now? Why not mix things up with a sign-and-trade? Why not follow the voice of every message board denizen? Actually, for this one, that might work.

Trading AI straight-up in a sign-and-trade for one of his Class of 2004 brethren (like, say, Ben Gordon) is too complicated due to Base-Year Compensation rules, and any sign-and-trade deal that Iggy gets dealt within would have to invoke that clause.

Because of the raise in his deal, the contracts that come back to the 76ers would have to match up with half of Iguodala's first year salary, plus whatever salary they'd add on with other players. So if Iguodala is signed to a deal that has him making 12 million quid in the first season, it would only be worth six million in a trade. Good news if the 76ers want to deal for Matt Harpring, bad news if they want to try and replicate Iguodala's still-solid (and still-rising, for years after this) production.

Initially, I went to look for deals involving Class of 2003 guys, because those with significant gifts would already be working on their post-rookie contracts, which would be worth the full amount in a trade due to their BYC status expiring after 2007-08. Kirk Hinrich? On the block, but the Bulls don't need another wing player. Jameer Nelson? Same, and same. T.J. Ford? Already dealt. LeBron James? Too good. Reece Gaines? Too pretty for Philly. Leandro Barbosa? The Suns probably won't play ball.

Josh Howard? Hmm.

This isn't a reaction to Howard's latest indiscretion. Not sure if you've heard, but Mark Cuban is a pretty sound businessman, and he's knows that a fan base disappointed in a few off-court misdeeds rarely translates into actual losses at the gate, though losing basketball will always translate into ticket-buying indifference. And Howard sells tickets, because he helps win games. Or, he used to. Until last year, at least.

Howard is 28. He's in his prime. This is it. 2008-09 has to be his best year, and if it isn't, then ... yikes. Is the atmosphere right for him to pull off that career year? Sure, Avery Johnson is gone, and those two had their moments, but is he long for this team and an owner that really digs Brandon Bass?

Meanwhile, the 76ers just signed Elton Brand. Andre Miller is running the point. Their window to win is right flippin' now, in spite of all the young talent. Iguodala, for all his gifts, was an absolute millstone during last spring's playoffs; and even if we excuse the play because of two words ("Tayshaun" and "Prince"), the team still needs someone who can create in a pinch when things break down in the post. And not by firing a Maggette-esque three-pointer.

So why not give Iggy his 12-million per year, ship him to Dallas with Willie Green, and take Howard on? The Mavs get a Richard Jefferson-esque oop partner for Jason Kidd, someone to run enough with to dupe media types into thinking that Dallas is a fast-break team (like Kidd and Jefferson did in New Jersey), backcourt depth in Green, and they cut ties with Howard for a player almost four years younger.

Philly gets a smoother shooter who can create, defend, and knows how to contribute when the looks aren't there, or the looks aren't falling. Better yet, at two more years for 20 million and then a team option for 11 more, the 76ers stay in contract control. Also, Willie Green stinks.

I think it works, I think both sides do well, and I think fans of both teams would be happy with the deal one, three, and five years from now - even with, five years from now, Iguodala in his prime and Howard long gone from Philadelphia. Something about a Thaddeus Young.

What do you think?

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232 Comments

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  1. Trees At TheSportCount.com
    1. Posted by Trees At TheSportCount.com Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:56 pm EDT

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    i don't mind the trade for either team -- philly does need veterans more than up-and-comers -- though the 76ers would be justified to demand more than josh howard in return.
  2. Scoop
    2. Posted by Scoop Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:53 pm EDT

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    Josh Howard would fit right in with all the drag racing going on in south Philly
  3. mark
    3. Posted by mark Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm EDT

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    Pretty harsh on Willie Green aren't you, KD?
    Save the "stinks" label for guys like Smush Parker and Mark Madsen. You know, guys who do stink.
    I don't know what Iguodala's thinking. If there's ever a time to prove he can help raise up a garbage team into a contender, he'll never have a better chance. Going to Dallas puts him behind at least 6 teams, maybe 7. In the East, it's the Pistons, the Celtics, LeBronCo...and that's about it.
  4. hans k
    4. Posted by hans k Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:16 pm EDT

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    Howard for AI? will never happen. AI is popular in Philly..
  5. KD
    5. Posted by KD Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:48 pm EDT

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    Parker's career PER is 11.7, Green's is 11.1. And he's older.
  6. KD
    6. Posted by KD Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:48 pm EDT

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    By a month. Misread that.
  7. mhlhoop
    7. Posted by mhlhoop Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:17 pm EDT

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    Josh Howard is much more of a 4 than he is a 2, best suited as a 3. If the sixers make this deal, we will be completely depleted at the shooting guard position. No thanks, Dwyer. Get Andre to sign on the dotted line.
  8. Devine
    8. Posted by Devine Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:39 pm EDT

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    I think you're bang-on when you suggest that Iguodala, even at his eventual apex, is more of a complementary player than an alpha dog, KD. As a result, I'm not sure why Dallas would consider this move.
    It doesn't seem to make the Mavs demonstrably better in any facet. Most of the benefits listed were cosmetic (more alley-oops, the team looks faster even when it isn't really), nonexistent (added depth in the form of a guy who we agree "stinks") or possibly detrimental in the long run (the assumption of Philly's quandary of how to pay market-rate for a guy who thinks he's worth far more). The only thing it would really make Dallas is different, and while I guess that's attractive given the squad's post-Finals atrophy, it doesn't look like enough of a reward.
  9. Alex
    9. Posted by Alex Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:53 pm EDT

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    Yo - #7 - if Andre could shoot, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
  10. Trey
    10. Posted by Trey Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 pm EDT

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    Great points, Devine. The only reason this trade would go through would be the age factor. Dallas is old...like dirt old. The chance to turn back the clock at the SF position with a player who's close to the same skill level (in about 2 years) as Howard is appealing to me, as a Mavs fan. It Is mostly cosmetic but a lateral shift in talent that nets you a younger player still seems like a slight win. Is a trade that's only marginally beneficial not worth doing?
    That's me talking as a Mavs fan, were I a Philly Phaithful then I would certainly agree with your protesting the trade on grounds that it devastates the SG position.
  11. Colonel D. Williams (Ret.)
    11. Posted by Colonel D. Williams (Ret.) Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:44 pm EDT

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    They sign AI to that sort of contract and they are guaranteed EC mediocrity. The guy is a 3rd banana, who wants #1 money.
  12. Devine
    12. Posted by Devine Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:39 pm EDT

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    Good call, Trey -- I need to remember, at all times and at all costs, that age is paramount in the NBA, maybe moreso than in any other pro league. And yeah, replacing an in-his-prime 28-year-old who averaged 20-7-2 last year with a still-improving 25-year-old who averaged 20-5-5 is a definite personnel win, particularly if coach Carlisle could dissuade Iguodala from falling in love with his jumper. I'm still not sure how much better it would make them in the short term, but it would certainly be an interesting start to a roster turnover.
  13. mcwelk
    13. Posted by mcwelk Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:14 pm EDT

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    "Reece Gaines? Too pretty for Philly." Priceless.
  14. Jaceman
    14. Posted by Jaceman Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:40 pm EDT

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    I think AI might be a better finisher than Howard and with Kidd on the break he might be inclined to settle for less jumpers. He's not the ideal person for Howard, however I completely agree that Mavs are on the old side, and honestly, I don't think they can win with their given roster. The SG issue is fairly large then if we take out Willie Green as well.
  15. mark
    15. Posted by mark Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm EDT

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    KD: PER?
    Yes, I know it's a "valid" stat, Mr. Hollinger, but sometimes numbers lie. PER aside, I know junk when I see junk. Smush was junk...in his 2 Lakers years he was the worst starting PG in the NBA, possibly the worst starter period. He's a bad PG and so inept at grasping the Triangle that Phil Jackson gave up on him after 2 full years when the Playoffs started! Getting Fish back alone was worth an 8-game switch in the standings for the Lakers and I believed so before the season started (I was right and then some.) PG is a higher expectation position than SG. Willie is largely a SG--and until last year he was a bencher and spot starter on chaotic teams. Is he a success? No. But he's not yet a failure. Phil already told us that Smush was a failure.
    Therefore, Smush
  16. mark
    16. Posted by mark Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm EDT

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    Last line got screwy, I meant to say...
    Willie Smush. If only a little. But hey, that could change.
  17. mark
    17. Posted by mark Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm EDT

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    Hmm, Yahoo doesn't allow "greater than/less than" symbols in the discussion.
    So noted...
  18. Antoine H
    18. Posted by Antoine H Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:37 pm EDT

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    I would say Josh Smith for Josh Howard would be a better deal. With Iggy, i say Barbosa sounds good, but they got Louis Williams so that makes no sense. I think Thaddeus can play the three, Barbosa starts at 2 and louis williams plays back up pg or sg. It gives Sixers outside shooting. Suns keep bell for defense, add defense with Iggy. Also throw in Robin Lopez for size. Voila. but kerr is not that smart.
  19. Jimbo Slice
    19. Posted by Jimbo Slice Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:25 pm EDT

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    I am from Philly. I love this idea. I really wouldn't ming if Iggy left or stayed. he is yound and he has more time to develop. But the will he do it? Maybe. Bt if we want to win right away, that sign and trade sounds good for both teams.
  20. M C
    20. Posted by M C Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:22 pm EDT

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    did i really just stumble into a who sucks more willie or smush debate? wow you guys are bored...they both suck does it really matter who sucks more?
  21. Mister Sparkle
    21. Posted by Mister Sparkle Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:18 pm EDT

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    If he doesn't want to sign, SHIP HIM OUT.
  22. geno g
    22. Posted by geno g Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:31 pm EDT

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    dunnow dude its seems pretty good for us in da big D
  23. getachew t
    23. Posted by getachew t Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:14 pm EDT

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    He will sign with 76thers.He is part of their run and success, it will be a bad decision to trade him with howard. both teams will not beniefit.dallas need howard him as the only complete player in the team who can shoot in and out and stop any player. AI is not as good as howard in defense.howard will be a distruction in phyli.,they do not need his big money, it is much better to pay 12million for AI, their game will improve with the addition of EB and will take the 4,5, or 6 position in the East.
  24. Freebird
    24. Posted by Freebird Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:56 pm EDT

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    Who cares if AI can create his own shot? The sixers have EB as the leader there now. EB has always been a goto guy who makes his own shot. Sign the igloo to along term deal and start building team chemistry under EB.
  25. Doseofreality
    25. Posted by Doseofreality Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:41 pm EDT

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    What would really come out of a trade with Howard and Andre. Howard isnot all that good at creating his own shot, and he is not as athletic as Andre... Philly should continue to look for another good pure shooter since you know Elton will be creating double teams down low... Miller is just good enough to pe a point guard for them...

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