Ball Don't Lie - NBA

Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:00 am EDT

Toronto trading T.J. Ford?

The deal's dead, apparently, and the proposed transaction sending Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal for T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, and the 17th pick in Thursday's NBA Draft still had plenty of holes to it (Jermaine makes 21.3 million next year, T.J. and Rasho combine to make just under 16.7, and the salaries have to nearly match) even at it's peak, but it was a nice idea while it lasted.

The Indiana Pacers desperately need to rebuild. The team blew its chance to start over during the summer of 2006 when the cap situation was right ("we'll just re-acquire Al Harrington, that'll change things ...") and the trade value of certain players wasn't at nil ("I'm sure Jamaal will turn it around - on and off court!"), and the team has to get something for O'Neal while it still can.

I'm not sold on a 25-point guard with a big contract and a bum back being the best option, but at this point you might need to grab what you can get that doesn't include the words "Marbury" alongside the phrase "expiring contract."

On Toronto's end, the deal would have helped on so many fronts. Though the first you may have expected, it should be said, sits a few steps down the imagined list. Done in cur-sive.

Because the Raptors, contrary to what you might assume with the team's overall image and Chris Bosh pulling in but 8.7 rebounds per game, were pretty darned good at keeping teams off the offensive boards last year. And that's not a fact skewed by the team's slow pace, the Raptors did hold their own ... save for the playoffs.

Yes, Dwight Howard and the Orlando Magic had their way with Toronto on the offensive glass last spring, and though the Magic and Raptors have created a budding rivalry over the last few seasons, teams should not be in the habit of making huge moves as a way to prepare for one potential playoff opponent.

That still shouldn't have stopped them from pulling the trigger, though, providing Rasho ended up as the second-best player Toronto sent away. I'm a Rasho fan, and I'm not underestimating him; but I do understand that trying to fill in the space between O'Neal's salary and the salaries that Toronto was sending out could result in an eventual bum move for the Raps. Either way, O'Neal's presence was needed.

Toronto was 14th in defensive efficiency last season, and the team's biggest failing was its field goal percentage defense. Sure, the opposing mark of 45.8 percent landed Toronto at 15th in the NBA, but that mark is rarely telling - you could give up 44 percent from three-point range, lose by 20 every night, and still bring that overall field goal percentage down a bit.

Naw, go with eFG, where the Raptors were a pitiful 23rd in the NBA. That accounts for three-point percentage, and though the Pacers were last in three-point percentage allowed last season ... well, shut up. I had a point going there for a while.

Oh yeah, O'Neal missed most of the season. There's my point. Either way, the deal is more or less quashed for now, but it would have been nice to see it actually go through. The Pacers truly have to start rebuilding, the Raptors can move up a notch provided they add a defensive stopper at any position, and Jermaine O'Neal needs to start living life as a guy who only has to think about his own offense a few times a quarter. Not as a go-to guy.

This isn't to say O'Neal won't move on, and not to say Toronto won't either trade their 17th pick somehow or move up in this week's Draft, but it makes sense that both Indiana and Toronto would think twice about the relative health of the two best players in this deal. Creaky frames like these just don't suddenly get better, and for good.

Does Toronto fall back on a similar deal that would bring Boris Diaw (for Ford) aboard? If that rumored deal went through, it would seem to signal that Toronto was abandoning all hope of being a balanced, great-offense/solid-defense club in favor of a brilliant-offense/rubbish-defense outfit. That's what sounds right, but Diaw can really lock down when his head's on straight. His head's never on straight, but ... BESIDE THE POINT!

Kurt Thomas helped quite a bit, but it's worth pointing out that before Thomas' injury in the last (only?) season that Diaw was playing smart, aggressive basketball, the Phoenix Suns were ranked second in defensive efficiency midway through the 2005-06 season. Just saying. He can block shots, move his feet, rebound, and help with the best of them. He takes charges, too, but I hate bigs who take charges so that's a demerit in this guy's coloring book.

On top of that, the Raps would get to keep Rasho (stop it) while clearing minutes and locker room headaches by officially handing the keys over to Jose Calderon. I can't see anything wrong with it, other than the whole "trading for Boris Diaw"-bit.

Tomorrow ...

Assuming Pat Riley hasn't traded for LaPhonso Ellis and Brian Grant, we'll go over the Miami rumors.

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23 Comments

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  1. QUE RICO
    1. Posted by QUE RICO Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:42 pm EDT

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    Keep dreaming Toronto.
  2. JMVandal (Formerly James M)
    2. Posted by JMVandal (Formerly James M) Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:53 pm EDT

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    What a mess. Jermaine doesn't seem to be the solution.
  3. G.P
    3. Posted by G.P Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:11 pm EDT

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    Thank God the deal is dead - what do we want 2 bad knees for 2 years and $46M!? Toronto needs a legitimate center that will help Bosh down low, not a guy that will miss half the season and put up 12 points per game. If Oneal continues on the point trend over the last 3 years he'll be down to 9 points and 5 rebounds per game next year - would that help? maybe, but for $23M per year? I don't think so.
  4. Sudsy
    4. Posted by Sudsy Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:08 pm EDT

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    this deal would of been huge for TO. A healthy JO and bosh upfront, calderon at the point, parker and moon/kapono/bargs at the 3 depending on match ups.
    In a still weak east (outside of boston and detroit) that line up could of done some damage, providing they stayed healthy. Its a chance I think they should of taken.
    Still, in Colangelo I trust, expect a draft day deal, id love to see Donte Green or Batum at 17 but if he has to make a move he will.
  5. bhattorious
    5. Posted by bhattorious Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:06 pm EDT

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    I say they make a play for Brand......Ford, Rasho, 17th pick and 2009 2nd pick......that would be awsome....
  6. lakerhater
    6. Posted by lakerhater Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:48 pm EDT

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    please take diaw off our hands!
  7. austin m
    7. Posted by austin m Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:25 pm EDT

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    im from indy and it would be great for indy to finally get JO's money of our hands. (i really wish we could keep him he just costs to much for us). this would be an awesome trade for the raptors if JO stayed healthy which i think would happen bcuz he would have the stress of being the go to guy. wen he was healthy he was a beast.
  8. MalibuHero
    8. Posted by MalibuHero Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:52 pm EDT

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    raps need to get michael jordan and scottie pippen.
  9. Mister Sparkle
    9. Posted by Mister Sparkle Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:18 pm EDT

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    he'd be an amazing defensive stopper for the Raptors.
    quite frankly, i think O' Neil simply didn't try hard in his rehabilitation.
  10. G.P
    10. Posted by G.P Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:11 pm EDT

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    @#1 Vikings Fan: learn to construct a sentence and then we'll talk
  11. FakenessRus
    11. Posted by FakenessRus Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:12 pm EDT

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    This deal would be bad for Toronto. It appears they are going for the Team basketball approach. They have built a really nice one. One that is balanced, plays hard and is capable of winning games. Getting Oneil wouldn't help this. He's got a healthy ego and isn't what he used to be. He's still good and would help but if Toronto wants to keep the team approach going he's not the guy. you can't have two bigs who want the ball 12-15 times apiece and win. One would have to be the role player and I don't see Bosh stepping down to JO.
  12. Mike L
    12. Posted by Mike L Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:28 pm EDT

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    O'Neil is an IDIOT! I hope Kobe is the better man and doesn't respond to O'Neil's idiotic comments.
  13. FakenessRus
    13. Posted by FakenessRus Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:12 pm EDT

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    I think Joe Alexander would be an excellent fit for this style but he will be long gone. Rush the III would also be a great fit for this system. We will see, won't we?
  14. Chris S
    14. Posted by Chris S Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:27 pm EDT

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    Toronto has 2 glaring needs: A true scoring threat on the wing and a big body in the middle. Problem is, there's just not any good true centres available and there's few GMs out there willing to trade big for a small (TJ). I think if anything, we'll see TJ get moved for an underrated scoring SF/SG (Collango seems to find the diamonds in the rough) and a halfway decent big man/draft pick.
  15. Sci
    15. Posted by Sci Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:16 pm EDT

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    Eh, I expect the Pacers to be bad for a few more seasons, but after a few years they'll be back in the playoffs again. Just give it time. I'm perfectly content at the moment seeing the Colts be successful.
  16. go@dsH0t
    16. Posted by go@dsH0t Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:27 pm EDT

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    TJ looks like Tiger Woods!
    Anyways, don't trade him. He's a good P.G.
  17. Weeee
    17. Posted by Weeee Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:29 pm EDT

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    For all the idiots who think that JO is a bad deal, think about it. He gives us 3 things we desperately need, inside post presence, rebounding, and defense. He's not Pau Gasol, he's a banger and he'll get those rebound for you. Think about Bosh and JO together.
    Also, the bigger picture is that his contract comes off in 09/10.-WHICH IS WHEN LEBRON, BOSH, AND WADE CAN ALL BE SIGNED AS FREE AGENTS.
  18. erici
    18. Posted by erici Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:03 pm EDT

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    i agree with kobe4mvp If you cats are doubtinh Jermaine you are crazy, his stats went down due to injury but he is a beast and he can board, he is easily a double double guy next season if he stays healthy, and don't sleep him sitting out last season because he is sick of Indiana, Jermaine will average 18 ppg and 9-10 rpg mark my qwords
  19. yuanhuagao
    19. Posted by yuanhuagao Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:58 pm EDT

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    I think the idea of bring O'Neal to raptors is positive. Because if they really want to compete for the NBA, not just for a first round exist, you got to bring some star player. Especially some sized player like O'Neal, although healthy is a concern in this point, but just take a look at the Boston in the same division, that's the team to beat for the raptors. Without any change, there have no hope for them.
    With O'Neal and Bosh in the middle, now you can at least stop Kevin Gannet and Perkin. It remind me a little bit of the double Wallace - Ben Wallace and R. Wallace, and O'Neal is not neccessary to be a scorer, he just has to be another Ben Wallace. The back courts have some holes, but it is fixable. With some trade-able pieces like Jason Kapono, Anthony Parker, Carlos Defino, or Joey Graham.
  20. lasvegasrentals
    20. Posted by lasvegasrentals Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:56 pm EDT

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    Get rid of David Stern, that's the best solution for NBA. With injuries: Stern created the problem. By forcing players to play in the NCAA, we now have to watch aging sick & injured players like Mutombo. After 5 years of NBA, players can't be expected not to get injured. Vancouver should have a team and now Seattle is being robbed of their team. If Oklahoma wants a team, why steal one from Seattle. With Tim Donaghy, he should get rid of more referees and he's not. He's defending them in fact when he should get more referees. Get rid of David Stern. This guy is crazy. He knows NYC is mafia Don Gotti land and with the NYSE, is gambling land of all time and yet he won't let Las Vegas have an NBA team. This guy is really crazy and not good for the NBA Game.
  21. yuanhuagao
    21. Posted by yuanhuagao Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:58 pm EDT

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    continues from #21: Raptors still have Andrea Barganini, if he is not a rebounding PF, then they should think about move him to the bench or play in the wing, because he is quick with 7 feet, plus he is very good in the arc, 40% from the 3 point line.
    this team is young if you think Chris Bosh is 24, Barganini is 23, O'Neal is 29, and Calderon is 26.
    If they make a trade to get a Redd, Carter, T-mac or Bulter, that will be amazing, but still it's all up to the raptors' GM, who is two time executive of the years in NBA with PHX and Raptors in 2006 and 2008. I still trust him even though last season, but without a step back, it is hard to get a step forward.
  22. yuanhuagao
    22. Posted by yuanhuagao Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:58 pm EDT

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    I am so great to see the deal done! as I said in #21 and 23. Now raptors should think about move Andrea Barganini, I heard the Bucks has been offer M. Redd for Ford and Barganini, but now raptors can think about get a guy like Redd, who can fill the scoring hole. I don't expect O'Neal to get 15 point a game, and play all 82 games, may be 60 games next season will be good enough.
    I will say try to trade Andrea Barganin plus some other role player like Jason Kapono for a star player. Vince Carter, Rip Hamilton, M. Redd, Antawn Jamison, Kevin Martin, etc, a guy who can put up 20 points a game. With O'Neal and Chris Bosh, Jamario Moon in the front, the raptors is a defence team, now they need some one to score. Calderon is a guy who can put the ball to your hand, but he is not a scoring PG.
  23. maddtuff
    23. Posted by maddtuff Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:02 pm EDT

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    yuanhuagao...you are a moron. The last thing the Raptors should do is trade for Vince Carter. Are you mental? We had to break balls to get him out of here once already. T-Mac? He'll never be back either. I doubt Kevin Martin, Jamison or Rip are even being considered as trade bait. For age and contract reasons they are staying put. Redd on the other hand would be interesting, but the cap space would be an issue. Corey Maggette is still available, he's exactly what the Raps need on the wing. An athletic scorer who can defend if necessary and is hard-nosed. We will have a poor-man's big 3, but a lot more depth than the Celtics and a better PG.

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