Ball Don't Lie - NBA

Thu May 29, 2008 2:25 pm EDT

The Internets are alive: Floppin' fines

The NBA announced yesterday that fines will be imposed on players starting next season for clear cases of "flopping." (So much for that Manu-Varejao commercial.) Here's what they're saying out in the ether about the as-yet-undetermined system of floppin' fines.

Supersonicsoul: "Flopping is not basketball. Nobody flops in pick-up basketball, because it is the antithesis of competition. Competing means pushing back, not falling down. Competing means focusing your efforts on defeating your man, not playing to an official. And yet the NBA has allowed this spectacle to rob the game of its excitement. [...] It's a disgusting practice, and it has had the same affect on the game as the European introduction of smallpox to Native Americans. Sure, flopping existing before the Euros came over, but it reached new heights under the teachings of Professor Vlade Divac and his bizarrely bearded disciples. Kudos to the NBA for making an effort to put an end to this. If they do nothing else right this off-season, I'll applaud them for this."

Red's Army: "... the NBA just screwed itself. There will be a scenario where a guy will egregiously flop … but draw a foul. What does the NBA do? Does it fine a guy for the flop and make the refs look bad for calling a foul on that play? Or does the NBA look bad by not fining a guy BECAUSE the ref fell for it and called a foul on the play?"

Brian Windhorst: "When there were first rumors of this sort of action last year I asked Andy [Varejao] about it. He pretty much shrugged and told me that it is easier to get a charge called in the NBA than any other league in the world because of the no-charge zone. “Easier to get charges because of the no-charge zone?” I repeated. “Yes, because if you set up outside of it and there is contact the officials have to make the call. In international games, they can let it go. The line makes them blow the whistle,” Andy told me. And, you know what, he’s right. So these fines may not be great news for Andy, but I suspect it won’t change the way he plays the game at all."

The Arena: "Don’t expect it to make much difference. Flopping is currently a player’s best ploy to gain a competitive advantage within the game from the officiating. While it’s certainly not illegal, it’s been roundly criticized, and floppers earn much derision from observers. And yet, everybody does it. You know what that reminds me of? A little scandal called Spygate."

We Suck At Sports: "... as a Cavs fan I'm obviously more a fan of Varejao because he enrages other players into retaliation. But the truth is, this kind of acting takes away from the game itself, because it's not a basketball play, it's taking advantage of an ill-constructed rule. A very similar advantage is taken of the Hack-a-Shaq concept, where the strategy works, but it has nothing to do with basketball itself. If Anderson was on any other team, I would hate him just like everybody else. It's a great rule, and the best part of it is the fact that in-game referees will not be responsible for this call. It's much easier to see flopping on tape, and not split-second judgment calls. As it stands, it looks like there'll be a massive drop-off in international players influx into the NBA."

The Commission: "Obviously something needs to be done about the incessant flopping. But fines? Is that kosher? How about two shots and the ball? That seems more reasonable. Fining just seems kind of silly, cause it's done after the game. I don't know that that will really curtail flopping, when it's a subjective punishment to be administered at a later date."

Hardwood Paroxysm: "A team like San Antonio, who runs a tight ship, with cost effective payrolls and teaches flopping as sound defensive technique, is totally, utterly screwed. How can all those guys on those small salaries get by getting fined two and three (or in Parker's case — 142) times a night just for using proper defensive technique? Answer: they won't. So now, either teams are going to have to actually attempt to play defense or they are going to get some serious kicks to the morale and the wallet."

The Sporting Blog: "It's hard to not get excited about anything that might cut down on phony fouls, whether on offense or defense. That might be worth sacrificing a few minutes per game, even if these things are harder to get away with down the stretch, when it really matters. Jeff Van Gundy is right: The last few minutes are usually officiated differently, which is how it should be. But flopping shouldn't just be ignored late in games — it should be punished, since it really is a scourge unto the game. Worse than the slam dunk."

Bonus: The Jones also weigh in on this on today's 'cast.

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  1. Mike G
    1. Posted by Mike G Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:26 pm EDT

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    One of the many reasons I no longer watch or pay much attention to the "National Billionaires' Assoc". They are a bunch of overpaid cry babies who can't even wear their clothes.
  2. Sky P
    2. Posted by Sky P Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:26 pm EDT

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    This is the best thing to happen since sliced bread!
    I've been telling people for years that flopping is the worst part of the game. Here's an idea, let them play on asphalt and see how many flops there are. I don't think that fines are the best way to go about getting rid of flopping, because it won't actually change the outcome of a game, so if a player gets fined for it, the team will happily step up and pay the fine because the game was won. But it's at least a step in the right direction.
    I'm sick and tired of seeing a 260lb man thrown halfway across the floor by a 6' 1" 180lb point guard. Enough already!
  3. Sky P
    3. Posted by Sky P Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:26 pm EDT

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    By the way, something also needs to be done about the whole, "get your man into the air, then jump into him to draw the contact" thing. It's the second worst part of the game, and yet another manipulation of the rules.
    It's a disgrace to the game of basketball, and the players who employ it should be ashamed. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it's right.
  4. Commentavius
    4. Posted by Commentavius Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:35 pm EDT

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    A foul should be a foul. Rationalizing about it -- calls are different at the end of a game -- he should have done a better job of acting -- that stuff is ridiculous. Maybe players should take a course at the Actors Studio? The purpose of having such a thing as "fouls" is to protect players from getting hurt which, even under the best conditions will happen given that basketball is a contact sport. Still, the idea is to protect players. When a player commits a foul, his team should be penalized if it was accidental. If he commits a foul on purpose, the player should be penalized. In last nights' game there was a foul. The Lakers should have been penalized -- very simple!
  5. the REAL Headless Chicken
    5. Posted by the REAL Headless Chicken Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:12 pm EDT

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    A fine? Okay, I see that the refs have difficulties deciding between a foul and a flop and sometimes the Association only knows better after the game. But what do 20 grand hurt a flopper? Even in soccer they receive in-game-penalties for flopping. So if at all, impose something like technical fouls upon it, maybe after reviewing tape. Or else, floppers will still be fine...
  6. the REAL Headless Chicken
    6. Posted by the REAL Headless Chicken Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:12 pm EDT

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    #4, I have the slight perception, you're a day late...
  7. Bville-codith
    7. Posted by Bville-codith Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:28 pm EDT

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    Okay. This is crazy. There is noway this is a good idea. Sure some flops are obvious, but even on tape you cant tell what actually happened all of the time. My boy Reggie would be upset man. Thats how he made a livin'. I feel its a great idea if you can know 100% that it was a flop but we may be gettin guys fined when they didnt even flop. I just hope the fines go to definite flops that are unanimously decided that it was a flop. Well just give Tony Parker a million dollar fine now.
  8. Bville-codith
    8. Posted by Bville-codith Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:28 pm EDT

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    Good point 7, Andrew. Great idea. dont punish dont reward, just ignore
  9. Older_than_Moses_Shaq
    9. Posted by Older_than_Moses_Shaq Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:56 pm EDT

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    I'd love to see flopping result in a penalty on the flopper. But, then we allow the refs to subjectively interpret who's flopped and who hasn't. We've all seen what subjective ref calls amount to. I doubt we need more of that. But, I'd love to see them end the practice somehow.
  10. Lude Attitude
    10. Posted by Lude Attitude Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:01 pm EDT

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    7 and 10, agreed. Isn't that how you treat and cure a brat? Just ignore the behavior and most of the problem resolves itself. Just need the refs, errr Stern, to buy into that.
  11. the REAL Headless Chicken
    11. Posted by the REAL Headless Chicken Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:12 pm EDT

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    The slam dunk a scourge to the game. Wow.
    Maybe like free throws. Or better: My personal scourge to the game: The 3pt-line. No, I have no 3pt shot. But that's not the reason.
    Raison Messieurs Raisonneurs is it kills the game. Europe had this one chance of flooding the Association with shooters only there for one thing: three pointers. Good thing for the NBA they put the line at 23'9" not at 20'6" like FIBA (who are going to change that).
    Imagine a court full of shooters and a 3pt-line so close. That's the real run and gun. From one line to the other. Put some defense on it and you cut scores to 50 points.
  12. Ryan
    12. Posted by Ryan Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:04 pm EDT

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    This is absurd -- how is there any way to objectively gauge if a player is flopping or not? Instant Flop-play? Granted, it's a blight on the game, but there's no way this will work.
  13. chippy
    13. Posted by chippy Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:34 pm EDT

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    How about invoking a rule that states "A board shall be convened after a game upon request by a coach for a player flopping. If said play is determined to be a 100% flop then the player is suspended 1 game. If a player is determined to have 2 flops during the same game but not 100% identified as such then the player will be assessed a 1 game suspension. After 3 such suspension the player is ineligible the rest of the season. If a flop is not determined then the requesting coach will be assessed the suspension."
    Stiff, yes, but very effective. Let's get rid of it. Let's have the players focus on the game and not have one eye on the officials.
  14. ballerblogger
    14. Posted by ballerblogger Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:01 pm EDT

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    Vlade Divac must be rolling over in in his grave...
  15. samurji
    15. Posted by samurji Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:04 pm EDT

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    Flopping is an epidemic imported from Europe. Euro players are influenced by the widespread diving culture in soccer and implement it to their Basketball games, and then bring their shameful habits to the NBA with Vlade Divac being the pioneer. Just as soccer punishes divers, the NBA are trying to do the same. Except its flopping is not as obvious as diving, so any calls will be very subjective to the refs opinion.
  16. PlanetMars
    16. Posted by PlanetMars Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:25 pm EDT

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    One of the many reasons I no longer watch or pay much attention to the "National Billionaires' Assoc". They are a bunch of overpaid cry babies who can't even wear their clothes.
    Mike G posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 2:32 pm EDT
    ^then why are you reading this blog, CLOWN? And it doesn't seem to me they can't even wear their clothers
    You are just jealous about all the money they make, CLOWN again
  17. PlanetMars
    17. Posted by PlanetMars Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:25 pm EDT

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    clothes*
  18. PlanetMars
    18. Posted by PlanetMars Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:25 pm EDT

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    it was about time they decided to do something about flopping. Good decision, nba.
  19. kevinappiah13
    19. Posted by kevinappiah13 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:50 pm EDT

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    thank god get the flopping out of the game,manu ginobli is the biggest flooper
  20. kevinappiah13
    20. Posted by kevinappiah13 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:50 pm EDT

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    thank god get the flopping out of the game,manu ginobli is the biggest flooper
  21. norman a
    21. Posted by norman a Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:41 pm EDT

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    hamilton flopped last nite in the closing minutes of game 5....
  22. norman a
    22. Posted by norman a Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:41 pm EDT

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    hamilton flopped last nite in the closing minutes of game 5....
  23. baller
    23. Posted by baller Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:23 pm EDT

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    It's about time
  24. A's Raiders Warriors
    24. Posted by A's Raiders Warriors Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:24 pm EDT

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    the spurs lost the way barry can't act
  25. NEW ORLEANS
    25. Posted by NEW ORLEANS Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:47 pm EDT

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    I think the nba should fine the official for calling flops especially when everyone knows its a flop

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