Ball Don't Lie - NBA

I'm aware that we've come to a place where you think that every NBA transaction, either entertained or executed upon, gets the thumbs down from this byline. I get that. I'm working on that. Not hard, but the effort is there.

Still, you're probably not surprised to note I almost think that the reported trade that would send Ron Artest and Kenny Thomas (woof) to the Los Angeles Lakers for Lamar Odom stinks on ice for both teams. Honestly, this can't help anyone with anything. Almost anything. Let's go over the potential positives:

1). The Lakers need someone to guard Paul Pierce.

They needed that guy about five weeks ago, more than anything, but the need still remains.

2). The Kings need to not have Kenny Thomas on their roster.

(Woof.)

Actually, I don't want to kill the Kings too much for trying to make a deal like this. On the surface, bringing in a guy like Odom in his prime seems like another unfortunate Geoff Petrie move. Petrie's the guy who refuses to admit that he's rebuilding, for half a year at least (sign Mikki Moore, not rebuilding, trade Mike Bibby, rebuilding; draft Spencer Hawes, rebuilding, not trade Brad Miller, not rebuilding), and you'd like to see him skew younger.

Odom, who at this point is a better overall player than Artest, would seem to be another way of staving off what needs to Sacramento's eventual youth movement, and he does make over 14 million dollars next season.

And he's not under contract for 2009-10.

Sweet.

Still, and though knocking Thomas' contract off the 2009-10 books is nice, you would hope Petrie could do a little better, and maybe work out a sign-and-trade for some semi-notable youngster who doesn't want to play for the Qualifying Offer, or even trade for a player working off the QO during the regular season, and I'm well aware that the player in question would have to sign off on playing in Sacramento in both instances. Stop it.

For the Lakers, it makes absolutely no sense on every possible level.

Forget Artest's eccentricities. We can bank on him doing some odd things but we're not sure how they'll manifest and it stands to reason that Mssrs. Jackson and Bryant should do a solid job of keeping him on point.

What worries me more is that Artest wants to be on point. On the point. He wants to play point guard. If he can't, then (ooh-ooh!) he wants to post this guy up. Can't get the pass? Then he wants to meet the ball, and take his guy off the dribble.

Ron fancies himself a Paul Pressey of sorts, only more annoying, and though this recent batch of offensive enthusiasm has been brought up so much that it's nearly becoming overdone, even if Artest curbs his offensive enthusiasm by 20 percent next year, that's still too much for a Laker offense that will be thrown out of wack by someone trying to dominate the ball.

And that's not a shot at Kobe Bryant, he's not going to chafe at losing shots as long as the offense runs smoothly. But if Artest is breaking plays and going off the rails as he's done in years past, the Laker offense will be far from smooth. It will be the anti-Michael McDonald, and nobody wants that. They better not want it. Michael McDonald will make sure of that.

Other than that, you're going to have to go to Kurt from Forum Blue and Gold for the best breakdown. In it, he mentions how Artest's defensive influence has been mitigated recently by his refusal to work through screens or his roaming for steals, he talks about Odom's far-superior rebounding, his far, far-superior offensive gifts, and the fact that Odom has been playing in this offense since 2005. Artest has not.

And then there's this brilliance, from Kurt:

1) Last year the Lakers made two trades, getting Ariza out of Orlando and Gasol out of Memphis. In both cases, there was no pre-trade leaks and discussion. However, last summer there was plenty of leaks and discussion about Jermaine O'Neal for Bynum and other trades that did not happen. Which category does this fall into?

2) To me and just about anyone else, adding Kenny Thomas would be a deal breaker. No way are we taking on $7.5 million this year and more than $8 mil next year, the same year we will have to pay Bynum, Ariza (and in this scenario re-sign Artest).

It just won't work for the defending Western champs, and that's even without taking into consideration Artest's off-court foibles.

For the Kings? I think they can do better from a talent standpoint, though that hope may have been shot to hell by Ron's recent Ron-ness.

It's another reason why this summer is too, too long. These guys can talk themselves into thinking anything is a good deal.

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  1. mark i
    1. Posted by mark i Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm EDT

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    Here's a better idea...see if you can sucker the Heat into Marion for Artest, Thomas, and a 2nd. rounder.
    Lamar stays with the Lakers, Artest and Thomas move out of Sacto, and Marion is banished to a REAL dead-end situation where he can re-think the wisdom of preferring max-contract Alpha Dog status on a bad team to being Steve Nash's 2nd option on a perennial contender.
    Everybody wins.
  2. Fever Dog
    2. Posted by Fever Dog Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:27 pm EDT

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    Odom is the man. Without Odom who will rebound for the Lakers? Not Gasol...
    I love Artest as a fierce defender but I don't want him on my team. Let Ariza develop into the lockdown defender we need and spare LA the headcase it would receive in Artest. Money wise the deal makes no sense.
  3. S-Dot
    3. Posted by S-Dot Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:18 pm EDT

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    i still think we need someone with his intensity.
  4. Omah
    4. Posted by Omah Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:45 pm EDT

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    i agree with this article
  5. bigboo's bro
    5. Posted by bigboo's bro Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:38 pm EDT

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    Any deal that keeps Artard away from the NYKs is a good deal.
  6. CHRIS B
    6. Posted by CHRIS B Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:42 pm EDT

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    They need to trade Lamar Odom for Tayshaun Prince. Both have long arms but Prince is more defensive. And Detroit needs to make some moves too. They went five times to the Eastern conference finals and won only one championship. They can get Odom who can score and rebound. Forget about Artest bring in Prince.
  7. hassandora
    7. Posted by hassandora Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:17 pm EDT

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    artest would be the perfect fit for the lakers we need his toughness and defensive presence odom was never a consistent player and if anyone is worried about rebounds we got bynum who will average nore than 10 plus gasol another good rebounder and kobe averages about 6 i say let turiaf leave we will have his replacement in kenny thomas who will average the same numbers as rny given the same minutes its definitely a trade we want
  8. Joseph C
    8. Posted by Joseph C Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:42 pm EDT

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    This deal is a no brainer. Odom will never step up and be the warrior the Lakers need to win. With Bynum down low and Gasol at the high post you need a small forward who can consistently knock down outside shots to spread the floor. Odom is not that player. For all his talent he does not have the defensive intensity that Artest has.
  9. Erik O.
    9. Posted by Erik O. Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:17 pm EDT

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    I've been wanting Artest on the Lakers since the "Malice at the Palace" incident... but I don't want him at the expense of Odom. And, after reading this article, I'm starting to not want him at all. Thanks for FINALLY writing a legitimate, quality sports piece, Dwyer. I hope that this is the first of many.
  10. alvarezart
    10. Posted by alvarezart Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:51 pm EDT

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    first off i dont like the Lakers...but getting Artest would be a step up from Odom...he is a Rodman like person and Jackson can handle that no problem...besides Gasol your Lakers will have a solid defensive team and a good transition team aswell...D.Fish - Kobe - Artest - Gasol - Bynum..i think its worth a shot.. i dont know about a Championship but that would be a tough team right there
  11. mcwelk
    11. Posted by mcwelk Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:14 pm EDT

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    Paul Pressey annoying? Wow.
  12. William
    12. Posted by William Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:57 pm EDT

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    The Lakers are too much of a finess team.
    They need some street bawlers.....
    if they are to contend next year with the Celtics.
    Lamarr Odom is not that guy.
    Ron Artese is.
    Pau Gasol is not that guy......Andrew Bynum is.
  13. Enrique
    13. Posted by Enrique Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:20 pm EDT

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    People don't realize how washed up artest is playing like!
    They should try for shawn marion...since the heat have expressed interest in bringing back odom.
  14. Bradley C
    14. Posted by Bradley C Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:50 pm EDT

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    Kings fan that totally agrees with you on the Lakers point of view. This would be a stupid, stupid trade for them to make, which is why it will unfortunately never happen. Again, as a Kings fan, I love the trade. I probably don't speak for all Kings fans, but I realize next year is gonna be another crappy year. If we can get rid of K9 and Ron-Ron in return for a solid player (Odom) whose contract expires at the end of the year, I say do it. Despite what you say, Petrie is in full rebuilding mode, and he's doing everything he can to clear the cap space to bring in someone big in '09 or '10. Hell, the Kings will have the money to be players in the LeBron sweepstakes (or course, he would never come to Sac), but I digress. I love this trade for the Kings because I already have low expectations going into next year. Who cares what we get in a trade for Ron and Kenny, as long as we're rid of Ron's attitude and Kenny's bloated paycheck.
  15. joshburke2
    15. Posted by joshburke2 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:41 pm EDT

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    duh....the Kings want Turiaf more than Odom. Expect to see Turiaf in a sign and trade with some team for some body. It's the only way for LA to get value for a guy that they brought through their system (and not to mention shelled out for open heart surgery for).
  16. ballerblogger
    16. Posted by ballerblogger Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:01 pm EDT

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    I disagree. The reason Artest dominates the basketball in Sacramento is because he doesn't respect his teammates and none of them are on his level. The 2004 Pacers didn't have issues with shot distribution. Artest knew that Jermaine O'Neal was the go-to-guy and he focused his efforts on the defensive side of the ball. Bottom line: I think the guy is a winner. You don't come in second in the Defensive Player of the Year award voting and win the award in two straight seasons unless you have an incredible desire to win. Playing lockdown defense is a thankless job, but the guys that succeed in locking down the opposition are ferocious competitors. If given the opportunity to play with Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum, I think Artest would fall in line.
  17. ballerblogger
    17. Posted by ballerblogger Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:01 pm EDT

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    KD: I wish you would have went a little more in depth with your thoughts on the potential benefits on defense. Four seasons ago, Artest was Defensive Player of the Year. During that season, Artest held his offensive targets, including some of the league’s top players, to 8.1 points per game on 9.3 shots per game and 42.6 percent shooting. This can’t be emphasized enough. I know four seasons have passed, but Artest is only 28 years old — a year younger than Kobe Bryant. At 6-7, 250 pounds he can guard four of the five positions in basketball. Teams with two 1st team All-NBA defenders are incredibly successful. Artest and Bryant would allow Phil Jackson the defensive options he enjoyed with Jordan and Pippen. Those two — combined with a healthy Andrew Bynum defending the paint (2.1 blks) — would transform the Lakers into an elite team defensively.
  18. Dan
    18. Posted by Dan Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:45 pm EDT

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    I seriously hope Lakers dont get that idiot Artest - we're going to add some moron who runs in the stands to beat up fans?? This guy is a loser and he should play with losers.
    I'd have reservations about Laker Management sanity if they get this guy. How about if Mitch goes and apologizes to Caron Butler . . .
  19. J T
    19. Posted by J T Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:04 pm EDT

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    odom is a much better rebounder then artest. artest can shut down a single player but will also demand the ball and slow the laker offense which was one of the best last year. bynum will help with the interior defense that they needed in the finals. as bad as the lakers played during the finals they still had opportunities to win. i also think they should do a sign and trade with tariuf. i like the guy but you have to see it from his side. he wants to play and he would get that chance on another team. the lakers could get something in return and move on. i think ariza could be the lock down defender the lakers need. if the lakers are to trade odom, marion would be a better fit than artest.
  20. jon144k
    20. Posted by jon144k Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:40 pm EDT

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    oh my god i hate when NBA players wear tights
  21. Paul J
    21. Posted by Paul J Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:03 pm EDT

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    Anybody want a ME L T?????
  22. Sky P
    22. Posted by Sky P Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:26 pm EDT

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    CHRIS B- awesome idea.
    KD- I have no real concept of how all these salary structures regarding trades are supposed to work. Assuming Detroit would be open to a deal like this, what would need to be done to make it work?
  23. Andrew
    23. Posted by Andrew Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:00 pm EDT

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    im glad someone finally commented on the penis in the picture because i was about to. what a badass
  24. rchlhmal
    24. Posted by rchlhmal Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:31 pm EDT

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    i think the lakers stay put and play the same team, with bynum back odom will have a better game as well as gasol,then if things dont look right by february make the changes.
  25. djrobwood
    25. Posted by djrobwood Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:44 pm EDT

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    Lamar clearly looked confused and lost at times in the finals...as much as i love him as a player, person there's no excuse...your getting paid millions of dollars to put the ball in the hole and defend...he still doesn't understand what a foul is! he needs to go back to fouling 101 cause it hasn't gotten through. I've watched, been patient and Ron is the missing factor. Lamar will be all over the place with Bynum and Gasol banging...we need a perimeter lockdown defender who can score and that will bring the hardware where it belongs.

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