Ball Don't Lie - NBA

Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:00 am EDT

Camby as a Clipper, one day later

Marcus Camby is a Los Angeles Clipper, the Denver Nuggets have a trade exception that they'll never use, and by now you've probably read nearly all you need to know on this sort of deal.

I was away from my computer until a few hours ago, scoping out Him, Slinky Redfoot, and Their trusty angel-girls, and I'm assuming most of the mainstream-o-phere and blogosphere has dutifully (and expertly) weighed on a deal that by now you're aware has less to do with talent-fo'-talent and more to do with both teams getting what they want.

Did both teams get what they want? Probably not, but in a certain way, yes. This is why we're going to take this two parts at one time:

1). Ask anyone who saw a Nuggets game last year and the one prior that wasn't on national TV, and they'll tell you that Marcus Camby is overrated as a defender.

I'm not being cool, I'm not acting the contrarian, and I'm not trying to fly in the face of conventional wisdom just to keep things interesting. The guy doesn't leave the paint, he doesn't fight through screens, he won't show on a pick and roll, and he can (as it has been since 1996) be bullied in the low post.

This fine post from Pickaxe and Roll leads to a series of other fine posts that echo what the proprietor of that site and other Nugget fans have been saying: Marcus gets blocks, and defensive rebounds, but he hurts his team defensively at times. I'm not going to go as far as to say that he hurts the team "nearly" as much defensively as he helps it - defensive boards and blocked shots still count - but Defensive Player of the Year? All-NBA Defense? No way.

So here is Los Angeles' (not entirely pitiable, I submit) dilemma: Camby and Chris Kaman seem like a pair that could use the bumps in one head to fill the holes in another. The rebounds are there, the blocks are there, so the defense has to be there ... right?

Not quite. One of these guys is going to actually deign to move their feet and contest or take away a shot or 19, over the course of a game (especially with the limited Clipper depth).

Neither Camby or Chris have shown an interest in that sort of role since 2003 or so, and while that allows for the stats to pile up, it could also for a center or power forward with any sort of touch or handle or screen-settling abilities (or, Larry Graham-forbid, some combination of the three) to have a field day even as the two combine for five blocks and 25 rebounds.

2). Trade exceptions? Nobody uses them.

Nuggets owner Stan Kroenke has shown a willingness to pay the luxury tax in the past, so this should leave me to assume that he's amenable to pay it in the future assuming the right ... no, I'm stopping there. The guy has 14 GMs, plus a high-priced coach. His franchise hasn't made it to the second round of the playoffs since Bryant Stith rocked the number 23. He's not paying it anymore.

Sure, the Nugs could turn around and feel like Nocioni tonight, but it's not happening. Prove me wrong, Stan, but I think you're set to try and trade Allen Iverson between now and February, and I think you're on the right path. Don't prove me wrong.

On the flip side?

1). The Clippers could get Camby to show on the perimeter, and his contract works.

Mike Dunleavy could get through to the guy. That's one hope.

Beyond that? It's a two year deal, and I'm not altogether convinced that he'll even spend an entire season as a Clipper.

Remember, any team that deals for contracts that end in 2010 aren't exactly out for LeBron and D-Wade or Amare or Carlos Boozer or Speedy Claxton. They're also looking for teams that are trying to clear space to sign a Claxton or Wade or LeBron. Or Boozer, even. Or Tony Battie. Camby can still be moved, by that point. More than once or even twice, actually. That last part wasn't a joke. 

2). As mentioned before, the Nuggets are making the right move.

I was surprised to see Denver make such a decisive move, based on the sheer amount of cooks in the kitchen up in Colorado (even if Kroenke has moved George Karl to the front of house), but this is a good sign. Any other deal (for Kirk Hinrich or Artest or Lamar Odom or any measure of ho-hum that leads to the exact amount of salary being sent back Denver's way) would have just prolonged the inevitable.

Could they have gotten more? Yes. Could they have done better? Not bloody likely.

The goal was to cut salary, and adding even a lower-rung first round pick (with that salary that you're forced to pay, for at least two years) doesn't fit. Best to make a clean break with a guy who was born in 1974. You got the best years of this guy's career, and it got you to the first round. Other factors went into that, but cap flexibility is worth its weight in cap flexibility. It's weighty. And worth it. 

The Nuggets weren't working. The team could have worked, but it didn't. An admirable try, by the front office at least, but the West is too loaded to just hope for the best.

AI, through little fault of his own, could be the next domino to fall, and that's not a horrible thing. In the West, you have to take chances. The Iverson-Anthony-Camby triptych failed, kudos for trying, and now it's time for the Nuggets take another calculated risk. Bravo for that.

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82 Comments

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  1. hockeysoccernj
    1. Posted by hockeysoccernj Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:19 pm EDT

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    I still don't understand how Camby "fills the void" left by Brand. What are the Clippers going to do with two centers?
  2. mark
    2. Posted by mark Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm EDT

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    It'll be more of a "flex PF/C" with Camby and Kaman sharing C duties and switching off on appropriate nights depending on matchup. I'd say most nights Camby covers the other C so he doesn't have to run around as much, but there may be nights where Kaman does that.
    I also agree, Iverson's gotta go. Not because he sucks but because Denver's just not a good fit. If they could find a way to put him in Dallas, Cleveland, or New Jersey, he'd open up any one of those offenses, particularly because he can open up the offense and not have to be the ballhandler, letting a bigger body do it. It also frees him to match up against the speedsters on defense...which would be a big deal in Dallas especially, since Kidd was below average on D even before he slowed down.
  3. mark
    3. Posted by mark Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm EDT

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    Ugh, I need to review my sentences before I hit "post comment." I meant to say "If they could find a way to put Iverson in DAL, CLE, or NJ, he'd push any one of those teams up a notch because he can open up the offense without having to make him be the ballhandler 90% of the time...letting a bigger body like Kidd, LeBron, or Devin Harris share or simply control the playmaking."
  4. AGA
    4. Posted by AGA Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:04 pm EDT

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    Kobe sucks!
  5. AGA
    5. Posted by AGA Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:04 pm EDT

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    KOBE SUCKS. Trade Kobe to Knicks. They suck.
  6. AGA
    6. Posted by AGA Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:04 pm EDT

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    Kaman & Camby is now better than Gasol & Bynum.
  7. AGA
    7. Posted by AGA Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:04 pm EDT

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    Anyway who cares about KOBE? This is a Camby Blog. I just have nothing to say except KOBE SUCKS. KOBE LOSER. LOL
  8. AGA
    8. Posted by AGA Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:04 pm EDT

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    Clippers will go deep into the playoffs. They just have to figure who will take care of offense now that CM is gone. AT will continue to develop. Los Angeles is now Clippers Town. Yahooooo!!! Kobe will never win another title without the Big Cactus. KOBE SUCKS.
  9. Roger Mason Jr. = Hero
    9. Posted by Roger Mason Jr. = Hero Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:09 pm EDT

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    Oooohh.... a Bryant Stith mention....
    I'm not worthy!
    I'm not worthy!
  10. mcwelk
    10. Posted by mcwelk Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:14 pm EDT

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    Clipz should trade Camby to the Jazz for Boozer, who could then opt out all over again.
  11. mark
    11. Posted by mark Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:08 pm EDT

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    No, no, mcwelk. Boozer is waiting for 2011 so the Jazz can offer him another contract extension which he'll agree to verbally. Then when there are no other good free agents on the market, Boozer will announce he's signing with the Russian National Team.
  12. matt the jazz fan
    12. Posted by matt the jazz fan Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:14 pm EDT

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    cute mcwelk. why aren't the jazz tendering an offer to joe smith? or a sign and trade for kirilenko?
  13. matt the jazz fan
    13. Posted by matt the jazz fan Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:14 pm EDT

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    sorry JOSH smith
  14. matt the jazz fan
    14. Posted by matt the jazz fan Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:14 pm EDT

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    sorry JOSH smith
  15. Are you a Dude?
    15. Posted by Are you a Dude? Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:55 pm EDT

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    If the person writing this is a guy, then dude, Kelly is a chicks name. If the person writing this is a chick with the name Kelly, than you are trying way to hard to sound clever and hip with your "jive talkin" lingo that you think will make you appear like you know what you’re talking about. While you’re at it, throw in some clever links to youtube videos of commercials from the early 90's. "At least I'll appear funny! Maybe they will respect me as a sports columnist even though Im a woman!"
  16. Envigado
    16. Posted by Envigado Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:24 pm EDT

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    Still makes little sense to me. The only thing that prevented Camby from being an all-star last year was AI and Melo getting voted in. And he might be overrated on D, but I think he's underrated on the other end. His passing skills have already been mentioned, but he's got good handles for a 5 and a solid (if ugly) jumper with some range on it.
    Haven't heard anybody else in the league complaining about the deal though so maybe the Nugs really couldn't get much more for him.
  17. deezndhauz
    17. Posted by deezndhauz Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:40 pm EDT

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    all your comments here are non-sense. thats why i never scroll down after reading. you should all get a life.
    then again you wouldnt be here if you had any. ^_^
  18. A Yahoo! User
    18. Posted by A Yahoo! User Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:02 pm EDT

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    You guys are all dumbasses. Just a bunch of LA haters when history proves that the LAKERS are one of the most successful franchises ever. And btw, I'm happy for he Clips. I think they'll do well with this lineup so far. It's for dam sure not gonna make them worse, esp when they got a much better (if not one of the best guards in the West, and we all know they're hard to come by) PG. GO L.A.
  19. DJ Nos
    19. Posted by DJ Nos Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:09 pm EDT

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    The Nuggets do not need to get rid of AI. He is still a perfect fit for Denver. If we could get a solid Point Gaurd, and keep out power forwards healthy (Nene, Kenyon) which some may say is very unlikely. Then there is no reason why we cannot be an elite team in the league. If JR Smith could could refine his skills and handle the ball on every possession, then I would like to see a team that is more athletic and more talented than just about anyother team in the league. JR has the potential to be a 20 point threat everynight. If he cannot grow up and take his place in the starting line-up then maybe we need to look into free agency....Kirk Heinrich. I completely disagree with saying it has anything to do with Allen Iverson or Carmello.
  20. KHAR T
    20. Posted by KHAR T Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:52 pm EDT

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    I am sure that Iverson-Camby-Anthony trio is failed because of Iverson or Camby.
    I think 99% it failed because of Anthony. He did not improve. He is still a raw talent with behavior problems.
    His defense is terrible. Iverson is still a Man. I admire his desire to play every night. You cannot teach this. Camby has limitations because of his weight. He cannot post. But he can block and rebound.
  21. bobbino88
    21. Posted by bobbino88 Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:10 pm EDT

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    This trade is like the Gasol to LA deal. Just dumping salary. But people say that the Grizz-LA trade was the most dumbest trade. (for the grizz aspect). Wait a few years down the road and the nuggets and griz will be on top of the west.
  22. Paul J
    22. Posted by Paul J Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:03 pm EDT

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    Two observations:
    The Nuggets will never stop being punished for that heinous Nene contract.
    I feel like Kaman is kind of an awful defender- can anyone with more than anecdotal evidence for this correct me or inform me?
    PJ
  23. sportsnut888
    23. Posted by sportsnut888 Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:02 pm EDT

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    Now the Clips biggest problem is who's going to score, besides BD? Teams will clog the paint and jam BD's driving lanes and contest his 3 pointers, because the Clips have no other bonafide scorers (Eric Gordon in the future) to keep defenses honest.
  24. ironbelly5
    24. Posted by ironbelly5 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:25 pm EDT

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    kobe to the knicks!! that's a great idea. he did nothing in the finals. all this talk about great defense etc., no defense ever stopped michael jordan.
  25. itsthateasy
    25. Posted by itsthateasy Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:57 pm EDT

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    Lets get one thing straight. KAMAN is TRASH. he was only good last year because the Clips had no other big man. he should have averaged what he did. HE WAS THE THE NUMBER 6 OVERALL PICK 3 YEARS AGO. Camby isnt going to help the clippers with his 22 ft jumper that barely clips the rim every time he pulls up. Bench Camby and keep Al thorton in the starting lineup. thats the logical move.

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