Ball Don't Lie - NBA


I'm sure you've heard the news by now: The once mighty Pistons have reached agreement with free-agent guard Ben Gordon(notes) and forward Charlie Villanueva(notes). (KD is not impressed.) Here's what they're saying out in the ether about Joe Dumars' quick signings ...

Straight Bangin': "Really, Joe? Really? You just committed your cap space to Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva? You turned Rasheed's expiring contract and Chauncey Billups(notes) into an embarrassing first-round flameout, a streaky and undersized sixth-man, and a mercurial forward who gets hurt fairly often? You took a team that as recently as two years ago was a decent rebounder and another guard away from the Finals and turned it into one that probably can't hope to be any better than seventh in the East? Your second-highest-paid player plays the same position as your highest? The same highest-paid guy who shouldn't have such an onerous deal in the first place? [...] Sorry to say it, Joey, but you need to update your resume, because you played yourself worse than Jay on 'DOA.'"

Empty The Bench: "Something’s gotta give in Detroit, and that something is one of the last remaining pieces of Detroit’s 2004 NBA Championship team leaving town: Richard Hamilton(notes), who will soon be traded. I think. He has to be, right? Despite reports that GM Joe Dumars has stated he has no intentions of trading Hamilton, it doesn’t make much sense to have two All-Star caliber shooting guards capable of playing 34-36 minutes a night (and getting paid like it) at the same position. Both were their respective team’s leading scorers last season (Gordon 20.7 for Chicago, Hamilton 18.3 for Detroit), both revel in the role of being the go-to guy on the floor, both have a well-documented history of not happily accepting a sixth-man role off the bench. Though Gordon is a much higher-character guy than Allen Iverson(notes), the last thing Dumars and the Pistons need is another backcourt controversy: as you recall, it was first Hamilton, then Iverson, who publicly bemoaned their demotions to the bench in favor of the other. I can’t imagine that Gordon made the move to Detroit to be a backup, nor can I see Hamilton suddenly having a change of heart and stepping aside to make room for Gordon in the starting lineup. Something’s gotta give."

Detroit Bad Boys: "Villanueva’s arrival will come with mixed reviews, in part because of shaky defense and a reputation for being 'soft,' but objectively speaking, he’s a better shooter, passer and rebounder than Rasheed Wallace(notes), the man he’s essentially replacing. No, he’s not a complete package — Wallace was an exceptional defender, at least when he was up for the challenge — but for the price and potential for improvement, I have no quibbles with the move. He alone won’t put the Pistons over the top, but this roster is a couple of years away from worrying about the 'missing piece.'"

The Baseline: "Villanueva was a smart move, and while Gordon may hardly have filled an obvious need, he's not going to hurt the team, and Detroit can always use additional offense. Does this immediately make them contenders? No, but could you see any of the 2010 free agents stepping right in and stabilizing a team that, if you'd forgotten, just fired its coach to cap off a lost season? The Pistons haven't ever depended on a single superstar, anyway, which makes the 2010 model that much more unlikely. Instead, you can see Dumars hiring a coach who gets the Pistons culture, and will then indoctrinate Villanueva and Gordon. What's more, while these signings are in some ways a function of the Pistons organization, they also might be taken as an endorsement for teams looking to this summer for a more cost-effective future. If Dumars does it, you know other GMs are going to at least weigh the option."

David Aldridge, NBA.com: "Gordon's agent, Ray Brothers, said that 17 teams contacted him Wednesday about Gordon, but most were looking to sign Gordon to the mid-level exception or looking to do a sign-and-trade with Chicago. And after the last two summers of trying to negotiate deals with Chicago, Gordon was leery of yet more delay in trying to work something out down the road when Detroit came through so quickly with a tangible offer."

The Knicks Blog: "Truthfully, if my team had $19 million in cap space, I am not sure I’d be thrilled with these two deals. I think both got overpaid to a certain extent. Maybe not Gordon, but I do not see Villanueva as an $8 million dollar player in this market. He is a high volume shooter that is more of a chucker than a premier scoring threat. He does not shoot for a good percentage and he has never seen a shot that he didn’t like. Villanueva is a good perimeter defender and a good outside shooter, but he is not a great shot-blocker and is not a great rebounder. Not for his size."

Brew Hoop: "You could say this somehow validates the Bucks' decision to let CV walk.  After all, they'd understandably never throw that kind of coin at CV. However, if the Bucks had made their intention of re-signing CV clear and given him a QO it's unlikely he would have gotten nearly that much — RFAs just don't generate the same interest in the open market. Still, I think it's understandable, if a bit regrettable, that given the tax situation they let Villanueva walk. He'll probably put up good numbers next year, but I don't think anyone ever questioned his ability to put up stats. One thing's for sure: we wish Charlie the best of luck in Motown."

Larry Brown Sports: "Maybe it’s just because I’m not a Ben Gordon guy that I don’t like what Detroit’s doing, or maybe it’s because they spent $10 million a season on a sixth man who’s a gunner and not a ball-handler and doesn’t play much defense. Maybe it’s because I prefer Rip Hamilton and can’t envision them paying Gordon $10 mil per and telling him he’s coming off the bench meaning Rip’s probably gone. Now Villanueva’s a decent deal because he can score and board and he comes at a reasonable price as a Rasheed Wallace replacement. The thing I’m missing is the size issue. Where’s their inside presence? Don’t they need one? Maybe I should be patient to see what they add next year before I completely judge because this has to be a work in progress."

Motown String Music: "What's next for the Pistons? Will the opening night lineup be Kwame Brown(notes), Villanueva, Tayshaun Prince(notes), Ben Gordon, and Rodney Stuckey(notes) or does Dumars have something else up his sleeve that would move Tayshaun and/or find an upgrade over Kwame, possible in a deal involving Rip?"

Tremendous Upside Potential: "In basketball terms, Gordon's departure means John Salmons(notes) and Luol Deng(notes) need to step up. Last we saw them, Salmons was awesome, and Deng was bad and hurt. Is that what we can expect again? Salmons will be Gordon's replacement at shooting guard, and the Bulls better hope that last year wasn't an aberration. Make no mistake, Salmons had a career year last season. He set careers highs across the board at age 29, a point when most players begin to decline, not take off. His biggest jump was in three-point percentage. Without Gordon, the Bulls are going to need more shooters. Last year, Salmons was good enough to fill that roll, making 49 treys in 26 games as a Bull. He was efficient from long range too, connecting at a Gordon-like 41 percent. Again, was it a fluke, or is John Salmons for real? The Bulls better hope it's the latter."

Mouthpiece Blog: "... Mitch Robinson caught up with BG last night after the Pistons deal was announced: 'It was an easy decision. I went to visit and speaking with (Pistons GM) Joe Dumars I liked everything he had to say, I like everything the organization stands for … they’re all about winning and I want that too,' Gordon stated over the phone. 'Joe exudes that (winning) he eats, sleeps and breathes basketball and that’s an organization I need to be a part of.'"

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  1. pho
    1. Posted by pho Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:57 am EDT

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    I thought the CV pickup was pretty good but they overpaid. The Gordon pickup was just bad in my eyes but we will see how it pans out.
  2. Matt
    2. Posted by Matt Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:12 am EDT

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    This is like getting excited about finishing fourth...
  3. skyer
    3. Posted by skyer Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:14 am EDT

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    I think they are overpaid.. but what do I know. We have to give J.Dumars credit assembling a championship team with Billups, Rip, Prince and the Wallaces. But, they would have a hard time come out of the East with a team build around Ben and CV, let alone winning it all..
  4. alex m
    4. Posted by alex m Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:15 am EDT

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    What about AI, is he under contract?
  5. The Wiz
    5. Posted by The Wiz Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:23 am EDT

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    So much for picking up Bosh in 2010...Pistons made a bad move with Gordon, yeah rip is getting old but he is still good, CV is not as bad but it kind of leads to believe that the Pistons won't be going for Bosh. Lets hope that Joe Dumars knows something we all don't and surprises us in 2010.
  6. Anton
    6. Posted by Anton Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:32 am EDT

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    Alex m - no, he is gone now. That is the genius of Dumars. Get an expiring contract and rebuild.
  7. jeezee10
    7. Posted by jeezee10 Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:35 am EDT

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    When Dumars took Iverson for Billups he said that he wanted another way of winning. Instead of winning , the Pistons self-destructed. The core players have lost motivation and competitiveness. Iverson never was a factor.
    Dumars is dismantling that championship team to the last player.
    The last one to go could be him. Although he made some good trades, his major blunders are too great to be ignored - Milicic, Billups, and now these trades. I'm not saying let's wait and see how it will work out.
    Letting go Flip Saunders is also a big mistake.
    The problem of Dumars is that he make it known to everybody that he calls the shots. He should also be made to accept the blame for the demise of the Pistons.
  8. rightsaidfred
    8. Posted by rightsaidfred Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:37 am EDT

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    55 million for Ben Gordon?? 22 million for Iverson last year?? The Pistons are the new Knicks. You can't buy teamwork and team chemistry. You would think that Joe Dumbars would know this by now.
  9. z Soldierz
    9. Posted by 'z Soldierz Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:39 am EDT

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    Glad to see the Bulls did not re-sign BG! Too streaky & plays no D!!
  10. Michael C
    10. Posted by Michael C Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:50 am EDT

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    day one of the offseason. JoeD has plently of trade bait. Let this play out....
  11. Ujwal V
    11. Posted by Ujwal V Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:53 am EDT

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    I think this'll be nice for the pistons...i cant wait to see what they will do, if anything, with tayshaun and rip.
  12. christopherfrison
    12. Posted by christopherfrison Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:54 am EDT

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    I think it was a great move, now i will trade hamilton to boston for ronda and wallace and stuckey some were else for a powerforward and center... my line -up will be ronda pg, ben gordan sg, prince sf, villauneva pf, --------- c, ronda good rebounder, prince good defender and rebounder ronda defensive mind set and loves to pass the ball... and gordan loves to shoot... great move contenders next year with right coach
  13. Nano H
    13. Posted by Nano H Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:54 am EDT

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    Fire Joe Dumars!
  14. BJT
    14. Posted by BJT Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:06 pm EDT

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    Thank you Skeets for nailing that one with perfection! What is your view on Ron Ron in CTown?
  15. gaborik10m
    15. Posted by gaborik10m Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:13 pm EDT

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    Iverson, Gordon, Hamilton, Prince, and Villanueva starting five...you heard it here
  16. Wolverines
    16. Posted by Wolverines Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:17 pm EDT

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    WTF Joe D?????? Why would you take the Pistons out of the 2010 free agent market for these two. The Pistons need Big Men not another gaurd. I hope to god that you have a master plan in place. I would have rather watched the Pistons be mediocre again this year get a higher draft pick next year and go after to studs in 2010. Gordon and CV are not the answer to the Pistons problems. Who will lead this team???
  17. ASGisChillin
    17. Posted by ASGisChillin Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:25 pm EDT

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    i dont think this is a horrible move. also i dont think the rip is the answer anyway. i think he was the right fit on previous pistons teams but not on the current ones, even before these guys were signed. my only question is why would they sign a guy who only really does one thing and streakily at that in ben gordon. the guy can score and thats about it. sometimes he scores very well but he also gets real cold. he doesnt defend and now that he's getting starter money, he's going to start. thats a little bit questionable to me.
  18. Anton
    18. Posted by Anton Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:25 pm EDT

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    #16 - Iverson is not there anymore and why would they want him back? That would be dumb.
  19. Boney
    19. Posted by Boney Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:35 pm EDT

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    and tell me who besides Orlando and Detroit in the East can say they'll be in contention after this season?
    Boston? too old and they're looking to trade their only real future for more guys that can win right now.
    Cleveland? unless they get Bosh do you really think LeBron will stay in Cleveland and continue to play with guys like Mo Williams?
    Hawks? haha
    Wizards? maybe, if they can learn to play some defense. Gilbert is in his mid 20s but he's got 35 year old knees
    Bobcats? with MJ making personnel moves, no chance they contend
    Bulls? not with Reinsdorf making the call
  20. MAX_IN_MISSOURI
    20. Posted by MAX_IN_MISSOURI Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:43 pm EDT

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    Gordon sucks!
  21. Carlo
    21. Posted by Carlo Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:54 pm EDT

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    Boney you don't know what u talking about though I'm sure you think u do. Gordon was not traded to Detroit and to overlook Dumars missing on can't miss talent in the LeBron draft is foolish. You can't compare the Clippers' blunders to Dumar's blunders. The LeBron draft was a can't miss unless you draft the one player no one has heard of. He could easily have Bosh, Melo, or Wade so don't tell me he desrves a pass he don't that draft was too easy to succeed and he still f#@%ed it up.
    And to think that they will contend is foolish. The heart and soul of that team is gone. How they gonna win with Stuckey and Gordon starting? Those 2 gonna get ate up every night they too small.
    Gordon is probrably the best shooter in the league but I hope he can buy some defense with that extra mil Detroit is gonna give him every year.
    I think he'll regret not staying in Chicago when he had the chance, oh well.
    Detraoit will contend when the Bobcats become a dynasty. I guarantee the Pistons will not be relevant again until Dumars is gone.
    He's becoming to be like the old GM the Lions had.
  22. Aaron K
    22. Posted by Aaron K Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:56 pm EDT

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    I'd much rather have a couple of young solid players like CV and Gordon instead of sitting on cap room and waiting for "the summer of LeBron" which will turn out to be WAY over-hyped. Maybe one or two super-stars will switch teams, and the other 20 teams that cleared cap space will over-pay the rest of the FA's next year.
    Joe D had the money now, saw a couple of young pieces to build around, and still has some cap space and trade pieces to add another frontcourt player. I'm excited to see the Pistons with more of an up-tempo style and the ability to hit 3's. We obviously weren't going to win a championship with the group from 2004. People need to stop freaking out and look at the big picture. The only current contender built for the future is Orlando.
  23. QuAzY
    23. Posted by QuAzY Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:21 pm EDT

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    I think this is a bad move for the Pistons ... they're good players but not the great they should have save those money for next year if they want to be back to the Finals.
    We'll probably see some trades regarding R. Hamilton
  24. Rise With Us
    24. Posted by Rise With Us Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:23 pm EDT

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    Whats the word with Iverson then? Wheres he going or who wants him? I havent seen or heard anything on him?
  25. the REAL Headless Chicken
    25. Posted by the REAL Headless Chicken Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:25 pm EDT

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    I think I know one way KD actually likes this: Gordon is no more on the Bulls.

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