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Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:58 pm EDT

Referee amateur hour costs Nelson his shot at upset

By Steve Cofield

The guy has been called a 'Bloated Truck Driver' in the past and ridiculed as portly but Roy Nelson showed a lot of heart fighting Andrei Arlovski on a week's notice on Saturday's EliteXC 'Heat' card. He was fighting the perfect fight until referee Jorge Ortiz (some sites have incorrectly blamed ref Troy Waugh) showed his mixed martial arts officiating inexperience by standing the fight up. Arlovski caught Nelson with an inside knee and then two right hand bombs to finish the fight.

Nelson, who had a 22 pound weight advantage, was controlling Arlovski on the ground, nullifying the Belarussian's explosive striking. It was a great gameplan.

He actually had Arlovski in a real predicament working a kimura with 2:49 left in the first. Ortiz apparently not understanding what a kimura is, called for Nelson 'to work to improve his position' three different times over the next 20 seconds. Arlovski freed himself from the kimura at 2:28 and Nelson was still in a dominant side-control position. For some inexplicable reason, the referee stood them up FOUR SECONDS LATER!

This is the pitfall of holding big events in states with inexperienced MMA referees. The crowd at the Bank Atlantic Center was one of dumber groups in recent history. It seemed like they booed anytime that a fight went to the ground or there was a clinch. Ortiz officiated to the crowd's response instead of watching the fight.

UFC color analyst Joe Rogan popped on MMA.tv to rip Ortiz a new one:

You get a stand up if you can survive the round and make it to the next.  If a guy can force you to stand up with him by avoiding the take downs, a guy should be able to force you to fight on the ground by holding you down. It's mixed martial arts, and that's a part of the game.  I think these stand ups are incredibly unfair for grapplers. If a guy can hold you down and give you nuggies for 5 minutes, that's life. If a fighter is boring they won't be popular, and that lack of popularity will affect the way they're paid. I think that's what should motivate fighters to be active, not a referee stand up.

I don't know if Rogan meant that Nelson was inactive on the ground. If so, I'm not sure what fight he was watching.

Rogan link from BloodyElbow.com

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85 Comments

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  1. Nutcracker
    1. Posted by Nutcracker Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:22 pm EDT

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    They weren't a 'dumber group' of fans Cofield. BJJ is great to know and be able to employ, but as a spectator sport, it will always have a very limited appeal. "Hardcore" fans will never admit it, but the main appeal of MMA is watching someone get knocked out.. Not submitted.. That is where MMA will always come up short as a spectator sport. I have wrestled and trained bJJ. I admire the sport but it is not a great spectator sport... Period.
  2. Jimmy D
    2. Posted by Jimmy D Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:50 pm EDT

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    war ROY NELSON!
  3. Jimmy D
    3. Posted by Jimmy D Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:50 pm EDT

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    war ROY NELSON!
  4. iratherbe
    4. Posted by iratherbe Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:24 pm EDT

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    Yeah ... I was definitely perplexed by that stand up so soon when Roy was in a dominant position & still working. That's where he wanted to be. #1 is right & therein lies the problem - when things get popular mass appeal leads to being led by money. I've been of the opinion that MMA matches should have something like 1 (or a 2-3 minutes) round of BBJ/grappling etc., 1 round of stand up & striking & 1 or 2 rounds of mixed so fighters have to participate in across MMA disciplines. But the public seems to be demanding strikers & knockouts & that's where things seem to be heading.
  5. Kevin S
    5. Posted by Kevin S Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:54 pm EDT

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    Yeah, Nelson got screwed. That was a horrible stand up. What ref breaks for a stand up from an active side control?
  6. R.B.H.
    6. Posted by R.B.H. Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:31 pm EDT

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    EliteXC proves again what a joke they are in the MMA world...
  7. deeceevolt
    7. Posted by deeceevolt Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:40 pm EDT

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    Its about keeping the fight active and the ref was hearing the crowd and wanted to show that he was not going to let them stall.
    Side control is great but there is a point that you have to improve the position and here the ref didn't allow enough time for that.
    Imagine if this was the norm,Think about all the great submissions we wouldn't have seen over the years!
  8. mma er
    8. Posted by mma'er Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:30 pm EDT

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    i'd be pretty ashamed if i were a producer or directer of that mess. while they can't control horrible referee's,they can control the production value-and that fell flat again. the announcers were way over the top,the lady who did interviews couldn't elicite more than two-three word answers from the fighters and there continued to be audio problems going in and out of commercials. i do believe this was an improvement over the last two,but still has a long way to go to be a prime time worthy production.
    and yes-i do agree that the crowd was on the dumb side.........i mean,wasn't that hulk hogan and his new bimbo sitting behind jared shaw? lol
  9. winston wolf
    9. Posted by winston wolf Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:18 pm EDT

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    roy had a good side control and everyone is right they shouldnt have stood them up!!!...but man did he get boo-bopped by arlovski...besides i think it was clear that nelson was not gonna finish aa on the ground.. nothing looked solid from down there tito ortiz is gonna signwith affliction... just watch
  10. Koo
    10. Posted by Koo Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:16 pm EDT

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    Roy Nelson doesn't belong in the same ring with Arlovski. He's a heart attack waiting to happen.
  11. Michael Q
    11. Posted by Michael Q Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:24 pm EDT

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    hey iratherbe, that is the dumbest thing i have heard yet 1 round of each i have been watching and training since mma since the early ufc's stop blogging bout mma and start blogging bout cheerleading of knitting how stupid
  12. Celebrity Slayer
    12. Posted by Celebrity Slayer Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:29 pm EDT

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    If I wanted to watch an obese guy grind on top of someone for 3 minutes, I'd install a mirror in my bedroom.
  13. Jnyce
    13. Posted by Jnyce Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:41 pm EDT

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    I have to agree that the ref shouldn't have stood them up however, I dont think the outcome would have been any different. I think eventually Arlovski would have freed himself and the same outcome would have occurred. The fights were entertaining to say the least. Carano had a good outing and it was just great to see Kimbo exposed for what he is, a street brawling bully who has no business being in an octogan with a professional fighter. Way to go Seth, at least we all now know that there was no fix on this particular fight and if it was someone forgot to tell Seth that.....lol.....Kimbo I'll catch you on the rebound fighting punks on YOUTUBE!!!!
  14. Rob R
    14. Posted by Rob R Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:25 pm EDT

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    As boring as BJJ and grappling may seem to some MMA fans, that was only magnified by the fact that half the people in the arena were there to see Kimbo. If you're there to see Kimbo, you probably don't know much about grappling, and you want to see people get knocked out. Those people aren't going to appreciate the strong work Nelson was doing on the ground.
    The ref was definitely playing to the crowd, which is unfortunate. And I can see why people would blame it on Troy Waugh, whose general toolishness was hamming up the pre-fight instructions in the Carano and Kimbo fights.
    Personally, I like MMA because all the grappling and BJJ is a part of it. If I want to see people swing on each other, I'll watch boxing.
  15. dnlhrrmnn
    15. Posted by dnlhrrmnn Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:45 pm EDT

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    nelson was hurt, i think it was a good stoppage, he was out and only would have got more unnessary punches, i will say if the ref does not stand them up it would have been a different fight. i will agree that the fighters need to control the action not the refs. if a fighter can sit on a guy and the other guy cant get up or off the cage well he needs to work on his defence. the refs should not stand them up or seporate themk when there on the cage. there are very small amount of fight that may have been stopped early, not that many though.
  16. Kevin G
    16. Posted by Kevin G Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:32 pm EDT

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    The standup was bs, but they were standing people up a little early throughout the night to appease the idiot fans. Like Jnyce, I do not think the outcome would have been different. Nelson had the dominant position long enough to get a submission but he did not. Nelson looked gas and was way out of his league on the feet. It is a joke that Nelson said he could beat Arvloski 5 out of 10 times.
  17. bignerd101
    17. Posted by bignerd101 Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:07 pm EDT

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    Yes Nelson had side control but he spent most of his time just laying on AA and not pushing the action. I thought it was a judgment call, some refs would have stood them up others would have let Roy continue. The stand up was Roy's fault and he needs to take a lesson from Jake Shields. Jake had dominate position and kept throwing hollow punches to make the action appear living until he made his submission move. You are not allowed to make a move than rest 30 seconds to make you next.
  18. A Yahoo! User
    18. Posted by A Yahoo! User Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:00 pm EDT

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    I don't think Nelson was going to defeat AA on the ground...but that was really his only shot. He had a solid game plan, using his weight to his advantage, and the ref interfered. Personally, I just want to see the best fighter, regardless of style. Lyoto Machida's style is not particularly popular and he has been frequently booed, but he always wins, that's all that should matter. Unfortunately, it's not all that matters...and that's probably why Machida is yet to get a shot at the title. If you can't appreciate how different fighters defeat their opponent, you should probably return to watching Kimbo on youtube.
  19. dnlhrrmnn
    19. Posted by dnlhrrmnn Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:45 pm EDT

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    I do agree with every thing you just said.
  20. smoovevibe
    20. Posted by smoovevibe Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:30 pm EDT

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    I think it was a bad stand up based on side control.. but he did have him down there for a while without doing much. He had the kimura but then he let it go, but he had been down there for a while already. I've noticed most of the other promotions do tend to stand fights up much quicker than the UFC and I think it is because of the fans and the perceived excitement. I like submissions but even I get bored if a fight is on the ground too long. And holidayincambodia makes a good point.. KO's are more exciting and more desired. Striking is easier to see and understand as well. You don't have to understand positioning and transitions and subtleties when someone is getting socked in the face LOL.
  21. A Yahoo! User
    21. Posted by A Yahoo! User Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:00 pm EDT

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    bignerd101 makes a solid point. Jake had no intention of knocking out Semtex; his punches where a distraction to Semtex, the ref and the crowd. He waited for a lapse from Semtex...then ended it. Semtex better learn to tap a bit quicker...tap or snap, man.
  22. dnlhrrmnn
    22. Posted by dnlhrrmnn Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:45 pm EDT

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    I think that the "early" stoppages is there way of trying to keep fighters safe like it or not
  23. abdiver12
    23. Posted by abdiver12 Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:44 pm EDT

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    Though the ref shouldn't have stood them up, Nelson wasn't "robbed" because there's no doubt Arlovski would have still won that fight. He wasn't going to submit Arlovski from that position and the kimura was already history. The ref was clearly pandering to the crowd which was moronically booing every grapple but in the end, the better man won. Nelson put in a good effort but was never going to win that fight.
  24. dnlhrrmnn
    24. Posted by dnlhrrmnn Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:45 pm EDT

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    I think your right about people not understanding what is going on when a good bjj fighter is trying to do, i like all the different way to win a fight, i am impressed with a guy like b.j. penn's ground game. there are alot of moves that people may not understand, and they don't get what you have to do to get different submissions on a guy. i like when a good bjj guys is working. if peolpe would take the time to understand that part of fighting i think they would apprcate it as much as people like me.
  25. dnlhrrmnn
    25. Posted by dnlhrrmnn Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:45 pm EDT

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    Knees and elbows

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