Manuel wanted Lee and Halladay, too

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PHILADELPHIA (AP)—Just like the boisterous fans that pack the ballpark, manager Charlie Manuel wishes the Philadelphia Phillies still had Cliff Lee(notes).

Six weeks after the two-time NL champions made the blockbuster moves to acquire Roy Halladay(notes) from Toronto and send Lee to Seattle, Manuel spoke about the deals at a news conference.

He sounded like a fan when asked how he felt about the team trading away Lee to get Halladay.

“Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball right now. Lee is a tad behind him. Of course it would’ve been nice to have both of them,” Manuel said Tuesday. “It’d be good to have Halladay, Lee, (Cole) Hamels. I’d be looking good. I might even be buying more expensive furniture than the Mrs. has been buying me lately.”

The Phillies traded three minor leaguers to the Blue Jays for Halladay, a six-time All-Star who won the 2003 AL Cy Young. Philadelphia then gave Halladay a $60 million, three-year extension through 2013.

Lee, a former AL Cy Young Award winner, went to the Mariners in a separate deal the same day for three prospects. Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said he needed to replenish the farm system after trading seven prospects to get Lee and Halladay.

Money was a big factor, too. Lee, who will earn $9 million this season, is expected to test free agency next winter, and there’s no guarantee the Phillies would’ve afforded his asking price.

“Baseball is a business and I understand a lot of things,” Manuel said. “I have my own opinion and suggestions, but like everybody else I have a boss. From a business standpoint, the last two or three years they’ve definitely made good decisions. I trust them.”

That didn’t stop Manuel from making a pitch to keep Lee. He dreamed about a rotation that includes Halladay, Lee, and Hamels, the 2008 World Series MVP. That certainly would’ve made the Phillies favorites to win their third straight NL pennant, a feat last accomplished by the St. Louis Cardinals from 1942-44.

“I’ve worked in every capacity in different organizations and I know how things wind down,” Manuel said. “I voiced my opinion, but I’m not the guy making the final decision. At the same time, I’m excited about our pitching staff going into the season. I think our pitching to start the season this year is definitely better than it was to start the season last year. It’s an upgrade. I think we’ll be ready to go.”

Halladay and Hamels will be followed by Joe Blanton(notes), J.A. Happ(notes) and either Jamie Moyer(notes) or Kyle Kendrick(notes).

Coming off their second World Series title in franchise history, the Phillies entered last year with a rotation that featured Hamels, Brett Myers(notes), Blanton, Moyer and Chan Ho Park(notes).

Hamels struggled, Myers had hip surgery in June and returned as a reliever, Moyer lost his starting spot to midseason acquisition Pedro Martinez(notes) and Park was replaced by Happ. Lee arrived from Cleveland in July and stabilized the rotation. He was dominant in the playoffs, going 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA in five starts and earning both of Philadelphia’s wins in the World Series against the New York Yankees.

Lee wanted to stay in Philadelphia and expressed disappointment after the trade. Manuel spoke to few people this offseason, choosing to get away and relax at his home in Winter Haven, Fla. He did reach out to Lee, however.

“I had a good talk with him. He was definitely disappointed,” Manuel said. “He liked us. He liked everything about us. He liked Philadelphia. He liked the fans. He liked our team. He said we had a good attitude about winning. It was a real tough (phone call).”


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118 Comments

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    Jazzinefx Tue Feb 02, 2010 02:18 pm PST Report Abuse
    Patrick/Kingpaddy,

    The Phillies really got you SHOOK, huh??
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    Kingpaddy Mon Feb 01, 2010 07:10 pm PST Report Abuse
    Jazz,
    One thing that I forgot to mention is your claim that I am beyatching. That really stings after all I have done to clean up the name calling in Yahoo. I haven't done any beyatching since I was in the "Devils Pups" in the Marine Corp. They beat that into us. And I learned.

    I have filed my second suite against Yahoo for not monitoring the content and foul name calling, especially the homoerotic references where children can read them in public libraries unsupervised. I don't want any 3rd or 4th grader reading that stuff. I am again filing for all Texas public libraries and public schools to lock out Yahoo until they find a way of monitoring behavior that steps over the line. Words like stupid and dumb are not part of this litigation. I mean the words with sexual references or worse.

    Last years suite including an event where a group of three Rockies fans were soliciting for someone to kill a soldier and Dodger fan in Iraq.

    As a compromise it was accepted that Yahoo would put a rating system in place where posters could approve or disapprove what is said and in that way this allows for the supreme Courts decision that pornography is a community based definition.

    So as you can see I have no part in beyatching and quite the opposite are the true fact.

    No one has the right to falsely besmirch my reputation in this manner.
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    patrick Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:57 pm PST Report Abuse
    Jazz,

    I will repeat what I wrote with a little editing to show I am sincere. You are the first person that has rejected an apology when I have realized that my behavior was less than stellar.

    I simply don't believe your point of view and I need evidence before I believe any thing. That is why I believe in G-g. I have seen one of his miracles. Really that is all it is. I have not seen 1 fact that backs up your point of view. You have called me a string of foul names for my point of view. I am glad we don't have to face Lee again.

    Lee will never collect CC Sabathia or Halliday kind of money. By his own admission he said he never saw any better pitchers than those two and does not put him self in their class. So much for his outrageous demands

    You could end this your self by saying I don't agree with you but I will look further into it or I don't agree with your point of view so we will see as time goes on.

    I hate name calling and regret any behavior by my self that has hurt you. After you called me a foul name, I shot back. Not good behavior on my part and I am sorry. Whatever names you called me were pretty bad and what I said was quite mild. What did I call you that was that bad?

    Your Laker posting have the same quality. You say outlandish things so expect to be attacked as the Laker faithful is quite a large group and not all or many or them have much class.

    The Yankees didn't start out with tons of money when Stienbrenner bought them for 5.8 million. He built that club and was a cagey investor. I don't look down on that. What has he got for his money in the last 10 years. 2 World Series. The Phillies are probably going to better that.

    I was very gracious last year when your Phills beat my Dodgers. I enjoyed talking baseball with you.
    I don't agree with you about one thing and I have continued to look much deeper into the situation. Neither of us knows what went on in the two negotiating sessions. By agreement with the Players Union these details have to be kept quite for a year.
    He was there for both. Who knows YOU JUST MIGHT BE RIGHT.

    After working for the Dodgers for 10 years I do bleed Dodger blue.

    When you signed Polanco, I wrote you about what a smart move this was. I included lots of personal stuff as I have seen him many times over the last few year. I thought he just might make you nearly unbeatable.

    Good luck Jazz for the coming year.

    By the way I did file a law suite for allowing posters to post homoerotic references to others and demanded that Yahoo be taken out of Texas libraries where children can see them.
    They agreed to change to more oversight and a new kind of blog where people can not only report abuse but can rate the posters so they can be removed. A small victory. I am at them again this year. I not only teach law but am an expert witness.

    We will get this cleaned up. It will take a while but all evidence shows America changing back to behaviors seen in 1940. Hard times and the fact the country has swung to apathy and ignorance is the precursor for these events and the acts of the Millennial generation are strong indicators. I hope so.

    I want to see an end to the name calling.

    Good luck to you and Phillies. I still hope my Dodgers beat you as we are two dangerous teams.

    By the way, I went through some effort to dig up this quote for you from Koby Bryant in his respect of AI.

    “He is a scorer. It's like riding a bike.”

    - G Kobe Bryant, on Philadelphia G Allen Iverson scoring a season-high 23 points against the Lakers on Friday night.
    Patrick
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    Jazzinefx Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:00 am PST Report Abuse
    I don't care what you believe, Kingpaddy/Patrick!! It is what it is, and what can you do about it?? Worry about your lousy Dodgers!!! You've called me an equally amount of foul-mouthed names, so stop your beyatching!!! The fact remains that the Phillies front-office has made the club better.

    We made it to the World Series with half of a pitching staff, and a banged-up bullpen. Those issues were ADDRESSED this off-season. Our SR is stronger, we have an ace in the rotation for at least 4 seasons!! We strengthened our 3rd base position. We have a contact, situational hitter in Polanco. Our core offense is intact!!

    The Phillies are in good shape, and we won't miss Lee!!! You really don't have an argument because Lee HAS MADE HIS DECISION, and the PHILLIES MADE THEIRS!!! We are better off because we removed a player WHO DID NOT WANT TO BE IN PHILADELPHIA!!! That is what you have to get into YOUR HEAD!!!

    The Phillies have made a lot of good moves, and I'm glad to see them not just relying upon the past, believing that that is enough to get us to where we want to be. They are looking at the present and the future of the club, and that is good for Phillies phans, and baseball in general!!!

    I don't care what ANY NON-PHILLIES PHAN BELIEVES, I live in Philly, and I'm telling ANYONE WHO CARES TO LISTEN, that THIS CLUB, and THIS FRONT-OFFICE is the BEST we've had in OVER 60 years!!! You say we could've been better, I say that we ARE BETTER!!! It is what it is, and we'll go into this season with WHAT WE'VE GOT!!!
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    Kingpaddy Sun Jan 31, 2010 02:31 pm PST Report Abuse
    Read my reply to the last post before this one. Maybe we can clear this up.
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    patrick Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:22 am PST Report Abuse
    Jazzinefx Wed Jan 27, 2010 04:11 pm PST Report Abuse

    Ron,

    How do you know that Lee WASN'T serious? He SAID IT, He MEANT IT, why would he say it, if he didn't mean it?? Would you TURN DOWN 200 Billion Dollars??

    Jazzinefx Wed Jan 27, 2010 04:11 pm PST Report Abuse
    Patrick
    "I don't know what Lee meant when he gave those 10 years @ 200 Billion dollars. I believe that had the Mariners offered that contract, Lee would have certainly signed it, so, I think he was serious."

    He is where you lose your credibility and your mind. 200Billion is enough to buy every sports franchise in America and pay all the salaries. Of course he kidding. Only you with your hatred would believe that Lee asked for 200billion dollars. Take a nap.... have a drink. Pull your self together.

    And remember you took first blood. Did you expect us not to tell the truth and defend ourselves.
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    patrick Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:55 pm PST Report Abuse
    Jazz,
    Of course you know more than Charlie Manuel! Six years a major league player, 9years a minor league player. And then 18 years experience as a manager. And he says:

    “Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball right now. Lee is a tad behind him. Of course it would’ve been nice to have both of them,” Manuel said Tuesday. “It’d be good to have Halladay, Lee, (Cole) Hamels. I’d be looking good. I might even be buying more expensive furniture than the Mrs. has been buying me lately.”

    And then:

    Lee wanted to stay in Philadelphia and expressed disappointment after the trade. Manuel spoke to few people this offseason, choosing to get away and relax at his home in Winter Haven, Fla. He did reach out to Lee, however.

    “I had a good talk with him. He was definitely disappointed,” Manuel said. “He liked us. He liked everything about us. He liked Philadelphia. He liked the fans. He liked our team. He said we had a good attitude about winning. It was a real tough (phone call).”

    Of course you say he is lying. But why? With all that experience in the game and you having none I would think you would listen to the man who lead your team to a WS championship and two pennants.

    Get a grip dude. They couldn't afford 9 mil and gave him away....lol
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    patrick Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:26 pm PST Report Abuse
    Addled mind:

    "I don't know what Lee meant when he gave those 10 years @ 200 Billion dollars. I believe that had the Mariners offered that contract, Lee would have certainly signed it, so, I think he was serious."

    LOL You think he was serious. Why do you do this to yourself?

    Like I said a pitcher with his winning % is not an average player.
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leecl02.shtml

    You are cutting and pasting your answers. Can't remember what you wrote. New research shows that if you drink 2 cups of blueberry juice a day for 6 months it can reverse dementia. Just a friendly tip.
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    Kingpaddy Thu Jan 28, 2010 09:12 pm PST Report Abuse
    You have no proof of what Lee wanted and you know it. What he said abut free agency he said in Cleavland.

    You don't need to keep making this stuff up.
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    Jazzinefx Thu Jan 28, 2010 05:49 pm PST Report Abuse
    Cliff Lee Stats and History:
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leecl02.shtml

    If trade talks between Toronto and Philadelphia hadn't broken down, Cliff Lee would have NEVER been in Philadelphia in the first place, we would've had the pitcher we wanted and EVERYONE in Philadelphia wanted: Roy Halladay!! Roy Halladay would've pitched in the playoffs and World Series!!

    Don't be foolish. Cliff Lee was the second option, and he had a great, less than half a season in Philadelphia. No one in Philadelphia scapegoated Lee for us losing the World Series, there was a lot of reasons why we lost the World Series, Cliff Lee certainly wasn't one of them. I THINK YOU'RE THE ONE WHOS DEMENTED or could it be that you're STILL hurting because we CRUSHED THE DODGERS TWO SEASONS RUNNING? We phans gave Lee his props in Philadelphia, and the Phillies offered him 15 Million Dollars, and all Lee had to do was to commit to the Phillies organization. He didn't do it. Let's see if he gets BACK to the playoffs!!!

    Lee is ungrateful, HE SHOULD BE KISSING THE PHILLIES ASS for SAVING HIS SEASON, (rescuing him from Cleveland, where he was going NOWHERE!!) and giving him HIS FIRST TASTE EVER OF POST-SEASON BASEBALL!!!

    I wonder why you call yourself a baseball fan, you don't have a CLUE!!!
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    Henry Thu Jan 28, 2010 05:28 pm PST Report Abuse
    Ummm... Can anyone name me a manager in the league who wouldn't want both pitchers in their rotation? Reading this article was 2 minutes of my life I will never get back.
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    Kingpaddy Thu Jan 28, 2010 04:40 pm PST Report Abuse
    Any pitcher who over ten years wins nearly twice as many as he loses with a perennial loser is doing great. If he wasn't great why did they give up all that talent for him?

    Without Lee you don't beat the Rockies or the Dodgers. In fact you don't win two games in the World Series.

    You have created the lies you are spreading out of your hatred of Cliff Lee. Probably because you lost the World Series and have scapegoated Lee. Your lies are not even close to the truth and you are blind of that fact with your hatred.

    If anyone is ungrateful it is you. You should of been kissing his A$$ for saving your season.

    You have no idea what Lee was offered or how much was his counter offer. It was not publicly stated.

    You made it all up to stoke your hatred. Scapegoating Lee for losing the World Series when he won the two games you did win.

    I would see a doctor about your dementia. And stop your vile hatred.
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    Jazzinefx Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:06 am PST Report Abuse
    You call Cliff Lee great? He's an average pitcher who had one great season in 2008, winning the Cy Young award, and had a great less than half a season with our Phillies.:

    Cliff Lee Stats and History:
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leecl02.shtml

    What you all don't understand is that Cliff Lee was the replacement for Roy Halliday. If those trade talks last season hadn't broken down, Lee would have never been in Philadelphia.

    Our Phillies blew Lee up. He got greedy and ambitious, instead of sensible and grateful, and it blew-up in his face. Now, he is in yet another American League OUTHOUSE in Seattle, where they haven't done ANYTHING since 2001, when they won 116 games
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    patrick Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:22 am PST Report Abuse
    Great quotes and videos in Seattle for the great Cliff Lee

    http://www.daylife.com/topic/Cliff_Lee/quotes
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    patrick Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:13 pm PST Report Abuse
    When Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for 5.8 million and the team and stadium was in shambles he proceeded to repair the stadium and start building a team and a farm system. He built this team and secured a TV network that brought in lots of money. I am not going to hate a team for doing well. That's a cheap shot. All that money and one WS champs in ten years.
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    Jazzinefx Wed Jan 27, 2010 08:12 pm PST Report Abuse
    Ron H,

    Here's the ULTIMATE YANKEE COP-OUT WHEN they have nothing else to contribute: Brag about their stolen and asterisked trophies!! MAN, NOBODY IN THE NATIiONAL LEAGUE GIVES A M-F about Steinbrenner's KNICK-KNACKS!!! Cliff Lee hasn't won a World Series Championship, how did you go from talking about Cliff Lee, to talking about the Yankees World Series??

    You're weak, go to bed, YOU HAVE NOTHING to CONTRIBUTE!!! You're nothing but a common LACKEY!!!
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    Jazzinefx Wed Jan 27, 2010 07:59 pm PST Report Abuse
    It's because a MERCENARY CLUB like the Yankees, DON'T GIVE A F about their FANS!!! The Yankee's don't put names on their uniforms, because when players leave, no one will ever know that they left!!! The Yankees are the MOST PREDATORY CLUB in MLB!!!

    But a FOOL like you believes that the Yankees LOVE YOU!!!
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    Ron H. Wed Jan 27, 2010 07:52 pm PST Report Abuse
    Ever wonder why the Yankees don't have names on their jerseys but the Phillies do? It's for "fans"like Jazz to try and keep up!! The Yankees don't have a mascot either. Just 27 championships!!
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    Kingpaddy Wed Jan 27, 2010 07:38 pm PST Report Abuse
    That's confidential according to the agreement with the players union.. You should know this.
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    Kingpaddy Wed Jan 27, 2010 07:36 pm PST Report Abuse
    reports from Phillies reporters:

    http://www.thegoodphight.com/2009/12/18/1207098/does-anyone-like-the-phillies-lee
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    Jazzinefx Wed Jan 27, 2010 05:15 pm PST Report Abuse
    __A_YAHOO_USER__',

    What was Lee's counteroffer? What did Lee propose to the Phillies??
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    Kingpaddy Wed Jan 27, 2010 05:09 pm PST Report Abuse
    Save face with the Phillies Phans, you are kidding right. I have never heard of a player trying to save face with a bunch of fans. He made a counter offer. He did not walk away. SAVING FACE WITH THE PHILLY FANS IS AS DUMB OF AN IDEA THAT I EVER HEARD. WHAT DOES HE CARE AFTER NEGOTIATING IN GOOD FAITH. PHILLY FANS SHOULD BE KISSING HIS A$$ FOR THE TWO WS VICTORIES.

    I read Conlin, he is the guy that was suspended for being a racist. Real insider all right. Resotock the minors...LOL

    Nothing like giving up AAA players for advanced A players who are unlikely as not to ever see the show.

    The only story that makes any sense is that Boras might of made the Lee trade a condition of getting Halliday for an extension.
    That I would believe.
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    Jazzinefx Wed Jan 27, 2010 04:40 pm PST Report Abuse
    Cliff Lee will sign with WHOEVER can provide him the numbers that he wants His numbers: Mult-year contract i.e., 7 or more seasons, @ 23 or more Million per season. It doesn't necessarily mean him going to the Yankees, either. Whichever club can meet those numbers, that's who he's going to sign with. If Cleveland could match those numbers, he'll be back in Cleveland!! If Washington, Miami, Baltimore; Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Seattle; or anyone; can match those numbers, he'll sign. It doesn't have to be a top-tier club.

    Lee is out for the money, and his intent is to get it!!!
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    Jazzinefx Wed Jan 27, 2010 04:11 pm PST Report Abuse
    Ron,

    Did you read the story by Bill Conlin. Did anyone read the Bill Conlin story?? I must emphasis that Bill Conlin is an insider in the Philly Sports community. He is objective, and critical to a fault!! If you want the real scoop read his column.

    Everything I said is true. The bottom line is that Lee wants big money, money we couldn't afford without a contract extension. Regardless to what anyone believes, the minor leaguer's were more of an issue for the Phillies. The Phillies wanted those prospects back, and when Lee didn't want to extend his contract it was an easy decision after that, plus Lee wanted more than a three year contract, he wanted what C.C. got: 7 years or more, and he wanted that 23 Million dollars!!

    That is all the issue is about: Money!! The Phillies were not going to gamble on Lee without a contract extension. Halladay is here because he was willing to do the contract extension, and Halladay wanted to be here. Lee is out of Philly because Lee didn't want to do a contract extension, and Lee didn't want to be here!!

    All the other stuff about Lee wanting to be here, and he fully expected to be a Philly, is only Lee trying to save face with Phillies Phans. He knows how he was treated here, he really doesn't want to look ungrateful to us!! We gave Lee his first taste of playoff and World Series ball!! Evidently, those things mean little to Cliff Lee, and he has his own agenda!!! Cliff Lee wasn't treated badly in Philadelphia, he can NEVER say that!!! Cliff Lee had no intention of signing with the Phillies.

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