Revisiting the stingy Santana stances of the Red Sox and Yanks

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AP photos

As noted on Peter Abraham's LoHud Yankees Blog, the combined season totals from Phil Hughes, Clay Buchholz and Ian Kennedy: 2-17, 7.52 ERA, 137.2 IP.

As noted on Johan Santana's Y! Sports players page, his season stats: 11-7, 2.75 ERA, 177 IP.

Anyone out in Boston or the Bronx starting to think that maybe the Twins' asking price for prospects in exchange for Johan wasn't that high this past offseason? Why or why not?

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1. Posted by Mickey D. Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:14 pm EDT
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If the Twins were asking ONLY for Buchholz, I would have said we (the Sox) blew it. But they were asking for a bunch of other prospects along with Buchholz including Ellsbury, Masterson, and Lowrie.
Currently sitting above the Yankees in the standings, I'm okay with it.
2. Posted by Geoffrey Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:34 pm EDT
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And how would Santana's stats look in the American League? Consider that Santana is 1-3 with an ERA with a spot over 4, a WHIP around 1.35, and a K:BB of 22:10 against AL teams. Perhaps it is better than the other three combined, but we're talking apples and oranges here.
3. Posted by JUMBO Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:44 pm EDT
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Sometimes I cry myself to sleep. But now when I finally fall asleep, it will be to nightmares such as this. Thanks 'Duk.
4. Posted by Saro G Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:46 pm EDT
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Ian Kennedy is on the verge of being kicked out of the Bronx for a bag of balls after his comments following his last shellacking. Considering how desperate their pitching situation is, the Yankees should be kicking themselves much more than the Red Sox.
If Carlos Gomez develops like Jose Reyes in building his patience at the plate and gets his OBP above .300, he will be a nice guy at the top of the order. However, the deal looks pretty good for the Mets so far. Will the Twins call up Humber in September?
5. Posted by Saro G Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:46 pm EDT
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I know hindsight is 20/20, but imagine if the Twins kept Santana for this year, rolled to a division title, and get two draft picks instead of the mixed prospects they got from the Mets.
6. Posted by kyle Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:03 pm EDT
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Couldnt agree more dai, you can't ever really compare what a pitcher accomplishes in the AL to their body of work in the NL.
I agree with Mickey too, its kind of pointless to discuss if you are acting like these were straight up trade propositions. At one of the final offers the Sox walked away from, it was reported that the Twins were asking for Lester and Ellsbury along with Buchholz. And I can guarantee you that Jacoby and Jon have been a bigger factor in the Sox winning than Johan has been with the Mets this year.
7. Posted by Vincent L Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:09 pm EDT
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^
jon lester: 142 era , 167 2/3 ip, 1.276 whip, salary - $421,500
johan santana: 149 era , 177 ip, 1.130 whip, salary - $16,984,216
sup
8. Posted by Decapitated Mr. Redlegs Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:12 pm EDT
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Santana would have been a nice addition to the Bombers.
I am more surprised with what we have done with the current pitching staff. Moose possibly hitting the 20 win mark? That's pretty awesome and I hope he can reach that mark.
No Pavano jokes please. Ha
9. Posted by Saro G Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:46 pm EDT
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If the Mets didn't trade for Johan, chances are they'd have signed Kyle Lohse or Livan Hernandez. They would be mired in third place right now if they were stuck with those options, and I don't think Lohse would be working his magic as a Met this year. It's all about the right place at the right time.
10. Posted by tonyarob Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:57 pm EDT
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Woulda, coulda, shoulda....now watch the Yanks back up the money truck in front of C C Sabathia's door.
11. Posted by Deckard Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:50 pm EDT
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Prospects are just that,PROSPECTS, the Yankees for sure should have rushed to give up Kennedy,Hughes, and whatever else the Twins wanted. The Red Sox probably are better off, especially if Lester/Ellsbury were demanded by the Twins, but Lowrie and Bucholz(who just got sent down again)not so much. Most prospects are rated too high by their organizations and these pundits. Get the proven product and win now, it doesn't come around that often in these free agency days.
12. Posted by Fish Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:38 pm EDT
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Tough luck for the Crankee's and Redsuck's. Go on with your bad selve's Metropolitan's. Cashman, Epstein who? REAL baseball is played in the senior circuit. Designate THIS!!!!
13. Posted by zman1201 Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:01 pm EDT
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I don't see how Santana would have helped the Yankees become a contender this season. The Yankees have had so many injuries that their offense is decidingly weak. I mean sure Santana might have given them a few more wins, but at what cost. As for the Sox I think dealing for Santana would have made a huge difference considering that Beckett might be hurt more than the Red Sox are reporting. I mean Bucholtz has struggled and clearly isn't the big gamer they thought he'd be. I say if you're the yanks point to next season when they'll be more FA's in the market and more trade bait.
14. Posted by bigboo's bro Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:38 pm EDT
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Look here Duck, nobody thought Santana wasn't a premiere pitcher. The questions were about the total price and not just the prospects. For the Spankees, the tariff, including luxury tax, would have been colossal and while Santana has the nice ERA, he is pitching in the weaker hitting NL. His ERA would not be close to that in the AL East. Plus this is not rotisserie, so the real bottom line is the Ws and Ls, and 4 games above .500 is not alot of bang for the buck.
15. Posted by Eric Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:23 pm EDT
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Hindsight is 20/20 but it doesn't look like the Mets gave up a whole lot to get Santana, especially in comparison to what Seattle gave up to get Bedard, who's still never made it through a full season entirely healthy.
16. Posted by Jaybird Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:42 pm EDT
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#2, that's really small sample size. While Santana hasn't been the same Santana of two, three, and four years ago, he's still been pretty good and certainly would have helped BOS and NYY as an ace.
17. Posted by Son of Steinbrenner Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:16 pm EDT
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Will Santana be work $17 million in 6 years? What are the odds of Hughes being similarly successful at that point for far less money? For the Yankees, this was not a trade for 2008, but a trade for 2009 and far beyond...
18. Posted by angloamer Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:54 pm EDT
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There is two things the Yanks, need to realize and stop fantisizing. 1st they are not going to the playsoffs, and 2nd, Kennedy and Hughs are never going to be worth the powder to blow them to Hell. Get into the real world.
19. Posted by Geoffrey Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:34 pm EDT
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Jaybird, the sample size is so small, because the question asked is focusing on the short-term results. If Duk asks this question four years from now, you'll get a better answer. If the Mets win a world series this year, then you can make the direct comparisons, but for now the Mets, Red Sox, and Yankees are all underachieving with their pieces in the Johan puzzle, while the Twins are benefitting.
20. Posted by jeru411 Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:33 pm EDT
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Der, Buchholz wasn't even the most commonly talked about player in the deal. Sox were going to part with Lester Jacoby Ellsbury, and I believe Masterson.
So if you were to ask me what I'd rather have.. Lester, Ellsbury, Masterson and 20mil... or Santana? What do you think??? FWIW, I always thought the Yankees prospects were overrated, so they definitely snoozed, but the Sox did the right thing...