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Big League Stew

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:07 pm EDT

Old-school Bob Gibson 'probably' would have done steroids

By David Brown

Most responses to baseball players using performance-enhancing drugs tend to be either hysterical or "meh." Hall-of-Fame right-hander Bob Gibson, whose reputation suggests he would have gnawed off an opponent's limbs to win one of his starts, gave an intellectually honest answer about steroids in a recent ESPN radio interview (AUDIO — skip to 7:45).

His most provocative line: "I probably would have a tendency to say, 'Let's just try this and see what it does to me.' "

Call Bob Gibson an enabler, or a cheater in his heart if you like (then duck), but he just raised the most reasonable point on the issue so far. That's not all Gibson said, either.

• "They had the 'Black Sox scandal.' ... Guys have always been cheating, period. It just takes a little different form today."

• "I'm just glad they didn't have steroids when I was playing. You know, I don't know what I would have done."

• "It's very difficult to go out there and perform when you know the guy next to you is taking steroids, or some kind of drugs, that make you play better — and not do it yourself. ... To let this guy get an edge on you, I can't see anybody wanting to go out there, knowing that this other guy is taking drugs and hitting .300 and hitting 500 home runs, and here I am, trying to behave and trying to do things the way it's supposed to be done, and I'm not hitting very well, so ... I probably would have a tendency to say 'Let's just try this and see what it does to me.' "

• "I don't know if I can really criticize the guys. ... Whoever the first guy was who started, that's the guy I'm going to criticize. For the rest of them, they're following suit."

• "I don't think it's 'OK.' I'm not sanctioning it, but I understand why it happens."

• On whether users should be allowed in the Hall of Fame: "Oh, yeah. I think so."

Testify, Pack Robert.

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35 Comments

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  1. Deker
    1. Posted by Deker Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:24 pm EDT

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    Amen brother, preach it! Baseball players have been cheating and trying to find an edge throughout history. These ball players should definitely be in the hall of fame, as should Pete Rose. There's a bunch of steriod users from seasons past who weren't hall of famers, but guys like Sosa and Palmeiro and manny have the numbers to be there and won't because of one failed steroid test. Let's let all the other cheaters in the Hall, just not the steriod guys and that Rose fella.
  2. Sucka Punch (as in Eat it, Scott Podsednik )
    2. Posted by Sucka Punch (as in "Eat it, Scott Podsednik") Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:38 pm EDT

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    The real blame for the steroids era goes to the guys who started it, like Canseco. When guys like him began to use PED's, it forced others to take it to keep up.
  3. Onik
    3. Posted by Onik Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:38 pm EDT

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    iaw Bob Gibson
  4. Too much fantasy
    4. Posted by Too much fantasy Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:41 pm EDT

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    One other thing to consider is that MLB was turning a blind eye towards steroids. If others start using them, and are advancing their careers because of them, you'll be left behind. Now factor in that there is no drug testing, and even if you did get caught by police, baseball still would have no power to punish you.
    It would be the equivalent if pitchers used sandpaper to scuff the baseballs...yet umpires were not allowed to check if pitchers had sandpaper in their glove or pockets. If you knew other pitchers were doing it...and there was no way for them to get caught...wouldn't you do it too?
  5. Kevin J
    5. Posted by Kevin J Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:44 pm EDT

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    rose should be in the hof, but steriodd users shouldnt. chemically changing urself is different from gaining an edge on another guy.
  6. Jordan F
    6. Posted by Jordan F Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:49 pm EDT

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    @#1: So you're saying we should let the cheaters in who are good? I'm not really understanding. Cheating is cheating, and known cheaters have never been allowed into the HOF (at least to my knowledge). It shouldn't start now.
  7. Jordan F
    7. Posted by Jordan F Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:51 pm EDT

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    And no, Rose shouldn't be in the HOF. Betting on baseball was absolutely considered illegal at the time he did it, and he took the risk knowing what would happen if he did it. He shouldn't be allowed to be in the HOF just due to the fact that he is incredibly stupid, let alone doing something considered to be highly illegal.
  8. SSP909
    8. Posted by SSP909 Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:01 pm EDT

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    Very honest answer! I hate when old school players say they would never use PEDs. Players back then didnt have the 100 million dollar contracts players have now. I'm sure $100 million would make any player think twice.
  9. Hambone
    9. Posted by Hambone Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:10 pm EDT

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    I'm pretty sure Gaylord Perry is in the HOF, and he's actually more famous for cheating than anything else.
  10. sam spade
    10. Posted by sam spade Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:27 pm EDT

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    He's just being honest. So let's do him? He was the beneficiary of the high mound. when he had those unbelieveable numbers; ERA and strikeouts. It was in part because of the mounds height. It was lowered to get the hitters a better chance. Maybe he realizes that there are no sacred records in baseball to be protected because "cheating" and other factors are ingrained in the game.
    So what would Gibson's numbers be if the mound was at the height it is today. Or offensive enhancement has been going on since Gibson's time. For many Gibson's time was boring baseball because of so few runs. Since then, baseball owners have gone about creating a product that is more entertaining and fun to watch. Lowering the mound, small ball parks, small strike zones, body armor, maple bats, harder balls, legitimate weight training, there are too many factors to say that one thing like PED's are dominant. We like to watch baseball because it's so complicated.
    Bob Gibson was great. How much of his career totals were enhanced by the high mound? It's as impossible to say as how much does PEDs enhance a career? He was just honest.
  11. sam spade
    11. Posted by sam spade Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:57 pm EDT

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    the old timer who I love to hate on this issue is Dave Winfield. He says never in the Hall. Isn't A-Rod this generation's Dave Winfield? First 100 million player, Dave Winfield. Great player with great power in San Diego. A-Rod first 250 million player, great player in a HR park and also a last place team; Texas. Both crumbled under the pressure of the New York media and playing for the Yankees. Winfiled won the WS with the Toronto Blue Jays.
    They are the same guy. Please explain how PED's have enhanced A-Rod's career. nothing can help you handle the pressure to win when you play for the Yankees. Mr. Winfield; I believe that just as Mr. Gibson said, if you could have taken something that would have helped you win one WS while a member of the Yankees; you would have done so. Conversely, if A-Rod doesn't win one with the Yankees, that will be his greatest regret, not PED use.
  12. sam spade
    12. Posted by sam spade Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:57 pm EDT

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    the old timer who I love to hate on this issue is Dave Winfield. He says never in the Hall. Isn't A-Rod this generation's Dave Winfield? First 100 million player, Dave Winfield. Great player with great power in San Diego. A-Rod first 250 million player, great player in a HR park and also a last place team; Texas. Both crumbled under the pressure of the New York media and playing for the Yankees. Winfiled won the WS with the Toronto Blue Jays.
    They are the same guy. Please explain how PED's have enhanced A-Rod's career. nothing can help you handle the pressure to win when you play for the Yankees. Mr. Winfield; I believe that just as Mr. Gibson said, if you could have taken something that would have helped you win one WS while a member of the Yankees; you would have done so. Conversely, if A-Rod doesn't win one with the Yankees, that will be his greatest regret, not PED use.
  13. John
    13. Posted by John Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:03 pm EDT

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    I continue to believe that McGuire, Sosa, Clemens, ARod and the rest are heroes. They sacrificed their future health in order to add a little excitement to a sport that 95% of the time involves either time getting ready to throw, time to throw the ball back to the pitcher, time spent on foul balls and other not-in-play pitches, etc. ARod and the rest of the guys did it all for the love of the fans (and 10+mil $ per season, but I'm sure that had nothing to do with it).
    We need to celebrate our heroes.
  14. Paul L.
    14. Posted by Paul L. Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:24 pm EDT

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    Jordan F, as someone said look up Gaylord Perry. He admitted before he retired, so before he was in the HOF, that he used to doctor the ball. And he did it during the time it was illegal. So he is a Known Cheater and is in the HOF.
  15. SSP909
    15. Posted by SSP909 Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:44 pm EDT

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    besaball was pretty much dead after the 1994 strike. Thanks to McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemons the game resurected. Would we even be discussing baseball right now if it wasn't for them??
  16. Belkys G
    16. Posted by Belkys G Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:47 pm EDT

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    And there are two convicted drug-dealers in the HOF
  17. Deker
    17. Posted by Deker Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:13 pm EDT

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    @ jordan
    i guess you don't know anything about baseball, self admittedly. There are a whole nunch of ball players in the HOF who have done dispicable acts against their opponents and even fans. Not to mention the players who admitted they were HIGH ON LSD during games and other crazy illegal stuff. They played in a different era when their cheating was just a part of their legacy. Players like Pete Rose and Barry Bonds may have shamed the game, but their numbers and impact on the playing field are among the best that have ever played the sport. Maybe they need an asterix by their name, but they deserve a place in the HOF. The HOF isn't "heaven", where you don't get in if you're a sinner, it's a monument for great PLAYERS, as well as coaches and writers. If you had any idea what these players have done on the field compared to their "crimes" off the field, you might have another opinion.
  18. Sludge
    18. Posted by Sludge Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:17 pm EDT

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    So what he is saying is that baseball has always been a game of cheaters, some legacy. It is a game of garbage, the only greatness left in baseball is kids playing in their back yards. The slow death has already begun, its going to accelerate.
  19. Paul L
    19. Posted by Paul L Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:30 pm EDT

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    Lets please get real . The politicians cheat , not just once in a while , but constanlty . Judges cheat , all the way as far as the supreme (what a joke ) court , Law enforcement , cheats . Police brutality is such an accepted fact that people barelynotice it anymore . Wardens and prison guards encourage and condone homosexual rape as being part and participle of their convoluted " rehabilitation program .. We just had a president who tried as hard as he could to pretend that thConstitution didn't exist and who openly sent our innocent , naive youths to a foriegn land to find W.M.D's that he knew in front to be non - existent so that he and his cronies could make a few extra bucks .All that is just scratching the surface of the panoramic display of cheating and double dealing that goes on twenty four , seven and in the middle of all of this the athlete is supposed to be aas pure as th driven snow . GIVE ME A BREAK
  20. Eddaddy J
    20. Posted by Eddaddy J Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:54 pm EDT

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    Finally someone with some sense of reality, who actually played the game. not some writer whose undeservedly given the privilege to vote on HOF'ers. If bonds and clemens, etc make it to the vetrens commitee they are in.
  21. Banzai Pipeline
    21. Posted by Banzai Pipeline Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:44 pm EDT

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    You don't mind steroids in baseball....fine. But baseball is so statistics driven, that they should tear up the record books from pre 1980, and start a new one then. Start a new wing in the Hall of Fame too. One pre steroid era, and one steroid era. It's one thing to steal signs, and put snot on a ball, but it's another thing to pump chemicals in your system to make your body bigger, stronger and able to recover from muscle breakdown quickly.
    Hank Aaron accomplished more on natural ability and longevity, as opposed to Barry 'Horsehead' Bonds. Roger Maris accomplished more in one season on natural ability and hard work, than Mark 'Popeye Arms' McGuire, and Sammy 'Que?' Sosa.
    And for the poster who called steroid users heroes?!?! Um..... bull s*#$. A hero is somebody sleeping in a desert in Iraq. Ask Lyle Alzado or Ken Caminiti about their 'heroism'....oh wait, you can't.
  22. Steve McGarrett
    22. Posted by Steve McGarrett Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:13 am EDT

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    Why does this not suprise me? Bob Gibson was one of the greatest pitchers of the last 50 years. His will to win was probably rivaled by no player of his era. So, why not?
  23. drethnudrib
    23. Posted by drethnudrib Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:34 am EDT

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    A lot of people are demonizing Bud Selig and baseball for the so-called Steroid Era, but in my mind that's a cop-out. The simple fact is, steroid use helped ignite the fan passion that reinvigorated baseball during the 1990s, and baseball owes its current multi-billion dollar existence to the owners, the fans, and the commissioner who looked the other way. Don't penalize players for "cheating" when, according to the culture and collective bargaining agreement of the times, they didn't actually cheat. And "bans" of performance-enhancing drugs accompanied by a wink and a nod don't count. Aren't baseball stats discussions (on an epoch-driven time scale) usually defined as "dead-ball era" versus "modern era"?
    The sad truth of the matter is this, and don't hate me for saying so: If Bob Gibson or anyone else could have used performance-enhancing drugs in the 1990s and gotten away with it, they would have been stupid for not doing so.
  24. Nick P
    24. Posted by Nick P Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:41 am EDT

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    The word cheating has evidently lost all meaning. Very, very sad.
  25. Leifericson
    25. Posted by Leifericson Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:00 am EDT

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    I think the 1972? East German Olympic team was the start of it.
    Look at before and after pics of baseball players not too long after that.
    I've been looking at late 1970s players with some suspicion because they suddenly got huge.
    You can also date it by when "lifting weights" became ok to do in baseball.
    It was always considered a bad idea to lift weights,(bad for timing) but when the steroids came around, weight lifting became the excuse of why someone got so big? So it was suddenly ok to lift weights.
    You know, I really don't care about it. I don't care if the NFL hides it, etc.
    I'd just like sports leagues to have a consistent policy towards it. Allow it, don't allow it, whatever. Manny getting 50 games while Arod, and co. get nothing seems wrong to me. If they both got nothing, that's fine with me. It's the bias that I REALLY don't like.
    You're never going to stop people who are THAT competitive from trying to gain an edge.
    Also the media should have a gag rule. It's like covering an affair for a politician.
    Don't talk about it, because it only stirs up trouble for people who can't handle the truth.

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