#1, we have a decent enough pen, but they're always tired thanks to Arroyo and the Two-headed Fogg/Belisle monster... I think Dusty is doing fine. I mean I thought I saw Wood got up to near 140 pitches in an outing. 118 is getting up there, but it is the high thus far and not the trend. The thing I don't understand the most is that our sorta-tired bullpen gets tomorrow off, so why not use them? A better issue is why we are--for like the fhird year in a row---carrying three catchers... Who does that?

#2: The Braves also carry three catchers and have (or will have) a similar bullpen stamina problem very soon. You're right, it boggles the mind.

Well here's my issue with it. You got a huge lead and a young starter (24) who threw 180 innings last year. You have josh fogg as your long reliever in the pen, who can be stretched to 2-3 innings without any issue. Fogg last pitched 4 days ago, so he should be fine to go. Bronson Arroyo doesnt go until saturday, so fogg likely won't be needed again until then.
Why use volquez longer than necessary? Is there really anything to gain from taking the risk? Has Dusty ever heard of a 3 inning save?

I was warned by some cubs faithful that this would be a problem, Also that Baker is too loyal to his veterans that come in with him, i.e patterson and hairston. That is what was making the most angry until I read this article. 100 pitches or more in the last five outings? thats ridiculous. He should have been out long before 118 with the score being what it was. hopefully he'll start taking it a little easier. and hopefully he'll start playing the players who are the most deserving, Freel should never leave the field, and didnt Hatteberg hit in the 330's last year?

Why would you have Hatteberg play when Joey Votto is a stud and the 1st baseman of the future? At this stage of his career, Hatteberg is better suited to be a backup and pinch hitter. Patterson should be kicked to the curb and Jay Bruce should be patrolling center instead. Freel is great as a super sub, playing everyday but not the same position.

yeah- get hatteberg in there! sure he's 38 yrs old and last year was the first time he'd ever hit over .300 in his career (.310 in only 361 ab) but he's awesome! if barry bonds is an acurate barometer, i predict hatteberg's power numbers will rise sharply over the next few years. plus votto's only hitting .305 with 7 HR- get that loser out of there.

Since Arroyo can't stay in a game and is always taxing the bullpen, Baker should give him a taste of his own medicine and make him a long reliever. That way, the next time Votto blasts 3 HRs, Dusty can yank a Cueto or a Volquez in favor of a Bronson. Meanwhile bring up Homer Bailey and give him a chance to redeem himself after last year's shoddy performance. I guarantee he will figure it out this time. So then you have Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Bailey and whoever as your rotation. That is a firing squad. Too bad Dusty is a moron. I'm a Cubs fan and watched Baker blow the Bartman game in 2003. That wasn't Bartman's fault...Baker should have pulled Prior right after Alou threw his hissy fit. Also, as a fan of a team Corey Patterson used to play for...get rid of that douche and bring Jay Bruce up already! He has nothing left to prove in the minors and the Reds are very close to throwing away the season anyway. What do they have to lose?

this is bull. im tired of people talking about pitch counts and everyday this is a gettin more of a girlie sport..

Dusty Baker doesn't know his a-- from his elbow, but I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. Obviously, you want to limit the number of innings these guys throw, but the pitch counts for Cueto are absolutely fine. Volquez counts are of his own making. I think they'll go down once he gets slightly better control. As much as you have to preserve these young arms, you've also got to teach them mental toughness. I'd be very concerned if the 110 plus pitches stuff continues, but I doubt it will.

I am not a Reds fan but as bad as Narron was, Baker is worse. He doesn't understand pitch counts or believe in the bullpen. He also sticks with his guys (see Corey Patterson) way too long. The Reds have a decent foundation with Cueto, Volquez, Dunn, Phillips and Votto. But, guys like Jay Bruce have to get their licks in this season when it is clear you aren't going anywhere. Guys like Volquez and Cueto need to be treated like investments, not like they are pitching Game 7 every time out. A good manager would have won World Series with the Giants and Cubs, but Dusty found a way to screw it up and set both of those franchises back 5-10 years. Here's hoping it doesn't happen to you guys too.

what ever happened to the days when a guy would pitch a complete game, turn around and pitch 2 days later for and ENTIRE season? let the kids pitch.

RE #12
I know what happened to him: his arm fell off.
Really though, I think back in the 80's, 70's, and every decade before people started looking at pitch counts, what you had was batters who didn't take steroids. I think if you look at baseball cards, especially the one of Borat in this blog, you will notice that these guys looked like regular joe shmoes ... apart from Pete Rose who puts the statue of Michaelangelo to shame.
Point being, back in the day pitchers could run up their pitch count and coaches didn't give a crap. It's not like any hitter had any juice left in the 8th and 9th innings anyway. Nowadays it's different and I agree with pulling young talent out of there.

Seth, in that day Pitchers threw 80-85 MPH and were washed up by the time they were 30. In today's game pitchers like Volquez throw in the mid 90s and The modern pitching motion is not a natural motion for the elbow, shoulder, or rotator cuff. You add the extra strain of increased velocity for the purpose of speed/movement and the game is totally different now. Like the granny shots in basketball during the 50s going the distance on 2 days rest is no longer an option. No pitcher should ever throw anymore than 120 and you hit that danger zone at 100-105 according to all the sports medicine DRs. I take thier word over old folks notions any time. Edinson has been put into the danger zone for injuries 5 times this year and only one of those games was close. Protecting players from injuries is the whole idea of pitch counts. If you think we suck now let Volquez go down and see what we do.

Come on guys, grow some balls. These guys are paid to pitch, so pitch. To actually insinuate that Baker somehow had something to with Wood & Prior's fragility is RIDICULOUS. A player is out there to play, not be whimprered over like a piece of expensive China. Be a ballplayer and play. If your arms getting tired, then say its getting tired. Otherwise, go out there and be a ballplayer and play.

As a Cubs fan I can tell you how happy we were to see Dusty go. He kills young pitchers and won't play young hitters. I can tell you that he did not develop one every day player while he was here in Chicago (unless you consider Corey Patterson developed), but i can tell you how many pitchers he chewed up and spit out. Furthermore, he has to be up there as one of the worst baseball strategists in history... Enjoy Cinnci!

i do not like dusty baker and i think he doesn't know what he is doing while doing his job. he is dumb

Regarding the old days, there are many reasons for fewer CGs:
1) Viable RP alternatives; not just people who couldnt cut it as a starter.
2) Emphasis by hitting coaches on "working the count" and drawing walks.
3) Coaches care about preserving their arms/investments. Baseball is now big business.
4) They're not asked or expected to throw CGs! 7 solid innings is enough. "You did your job."

Critically of Dusty? Hell no! He didn't damage the arms of Woods or Prior. Their arms were damaged, but can't Blame Dusty. This man, Dusty baker was a good baseball player, and a good Manager. The Giants were not always winners while Dusty managed. The Cubs have never been winners. Name the Cub Manager that was better. I like the new Cub manager, but did he fail last year? NO! The Cubs lost in the playoffs to Arizona. It always easier to blame the manager.
Willie K.

Wow, there is so much to say here people. This may take a minute to straighten some of you out. First let me start by saying the Reds are my 2nd. favorite team and that doesn't matter that much cause it is all reflected by geo. location. What I have to say is based on most of what I have already read and my own opinions. Lets start with Dusty first, he is doing a good job with what he has to work with. Now I'm not disagreeing that he does extend pitch counts sometimes. However I think #10 has the right idea Dusty is trying to build some mental toughness, which every young pitcher needs to work on. Volquez was brought over when Hamilton was traded which, right now, looks like a good front office move. Now the GM who started a turnaround is also gone, but all this is only some of the point. Volquez can handle this load and it will help if he cuts back on the walks. Cueto however needs the pitch count that is lower than 100 he still needs to build toughness! Now as far as some of the young guys like Bailey and Bruce you have to remember that they only (the REDS) have so many options that can be used on those players. Now Bailey he still needs work he needs another dominant pitch to compliment his fastball, curve, and change, like a good splitter or slider, something a batter will chase. As for Bruce they won't bring him up unil they have a spot in the outflield to put him into on a more regular basis. That is why I have a hard time believing that Dunn needs to be kept on the squad. He should be just as much trade bate as any other player on the team at this point. Oh, as far as the Votto vs. Hatteberg arguement that's easy Votto needs to keep playing because as soon as he became an everyday player he has been hitting for average and power and all while hitting against left-handed pitching as he is a left-handed batter. All Votto needed was more playing time and I don't believe Hatteberg could say the same thing. Basicily what I'm saying is that the young pitchers for the Reds are in my opinion being used in the correct way at this time to build toughness and stamina. Also, #18 you are on the right track as to why there are no more or less CG's.

I say let em pitch. That's why they're making the big bucks. It's what they get paid to do.

Why not keep it simple? Plan to use 3+ pitchers each game. Forget about old school ideas like starting pitchers and getting into the 7th. Actually plan to go into each game where each pitcher will throw about 3 innings. It mixes up the pitches seen by the batters, it should help keep these young arms healthy, and in the NL you have that many more pinch hits. I hated seeing the Prior meltdown, he should have been great. With the high velocities these days, fewer innings might just save some arms.

I agree with Curt, The other night during a Yankees broadcast, David Cone mentioned something about his first 50 pitches being harder on him than his last 50 if he was able to get into a rhythm. I don't think a pitch count is the end-all be-all of the pitching world. With the cash these guys make today, let them throw unless somthing is really wrong.

pitch counts are thought of way to much these days. They are more of a guide line anyways. there is no reason to say that every pitcher can go 100 pitches and shouldn't go any more. some arms are built better and can give you 120 pitches every 5 days. look at Hallowday. I don't see much wrong with his arm. when they start to look tired. you get them out. who cares how many pitches they've thrown.

#15
I can really see a guy saying 'Hey, my arm is getting tired' out there. I mean, unless you are not a man, I doubt there are too many guys out there who will be honest about how tired they are. This is a sport and like any sport; pride and ego are a part of it. Nobody is going to go and admit that their 'arm is tired' after 6 innings (willingly). Those that do represent maybe 10% of the pitchers out there. I will bet you that for every guy who actually says 'coach, my arm is dead', there are 10 guys whose arm really is dead, but aren't saying anything because they do not want to sound like wimps.
#24
You are still wrong about 'Halladay': 108.5 pitches averaged over his last 4 starts. And please tell us how does one tell if a pitcher has a 120 pitch arm or a 90 pitch arm? What would be your method, apart from Dusty Baker’s ‘leave him in there, then say ‘see he lasted 120 pitches’, then two years later see that their arm is dead’ method?