Big League Stew - MLB

In the wake of Mariano Rivera(notes) earning his 500th save on Sunday night, an interesting debate has been born in the blogosphere.

Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter(notes)?

There's no doubt that both were the two biggest titans not named Joe Torre during the championship years and it's hard to imagine the Yankees winning without either future Hall of Famer wearing pinstripes.

But for argument's sake, if you were Bob Watson back in 1996 and someone came to you with the future numbers of both Jeter and Rivera and said you could only keep one, which one would you be tabbing as your franchise player for the next 15-20 years?

My kneejerk reaction, of course, was to say "Derek Jeter, duh" and I'm assuming that it's probably the same for many of you. He plays every day, has rarely seen a season that ended with a sub-.300 average and has become the face of the franchise.

Rivera, though, is getting support from a lot of corners. Ed Valentine from Pinstripe Alley says he'd take Mo over The Captain. Radio maven Sweeny Murti says Rivera's impact on the Yankees is only surpassed by Babe Ruth's. When I think about how difficult it is to build a bullpen year after year, the consistency of Rivera suddenly becomes a huge selling point. 

However, I'm eager to see what the loyal Stewies think, so cast your vote and make your argument in the comments below. Two favorite 'Stripes, one roster spot. Who gets it? 


If the year were 1996 and you could only pick one Yankee, who would it be?

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25 Comments

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  1. Rob Iracane
    1. Posted by Rob Iracane Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:31 pm EDT

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    Sorry Mariano, but Jeter never blew a World Series Game Seven.
  2. tito (eight and oh)
    2. Posted by tito (eight and oh) Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:37 pm EDT

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    I'd take Torre.
    0-1 Without him as far as playoff appearances go.
  3. Jake
    3. Posted by Jake Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:59 pm EDT

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    I wouldn't want be the person who would have to make this call. I'm a true Yankee fan and have been my entire life. I'm not one of those '96 and after Yankee fans. So asking someone like me to make this kind of call is extremely difficult. But if I had to make this decision, there's only one way to look at it. Who's more unique?
    Jeter is one of the toughest outs in baseball and he's one of the most clutch and consistent players of all time. He's a career .316 hitter and is going to end his career with over 3,500 hits. However, there are a handful of players in the record books with those type of numbers. Mo is the best closer of all time without a doubt. He has the most post season saves of all times and he's only 1 of 2 closers with 500 saves in their careers. So if you look at it that way, Mo's more valuable in the sense that he's basically in a league of his own whereas Jeter is in the company of a handful of greats. My answer than is Mo. Sorry Derek...
  4. MDH
    4. Posted by MDH Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:12 pm EDT

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    Jeter is the most over-rated player in the history of baseball. His defense is horrific, and he should never win a Gold Glove. I would take Mo without hesitation.
  5. Jason G
    5. Posted by Jason G Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:47 pm EDT

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    #5 - someone hasn't payed much attention this year, where Jeter is playing above-average defense in all metrics according to FanGraphs. But I get it, he hasn't been nearly as good before.
    #4 - A huge reason why very few people have 500 saves is because the role of a ninth-inning closer only came to prominence recently (in terms of the lifespan of the MLB).
    I vote for Jeter because of his position, though. An All-Star at a premium position like shortstop, is far more valuable than a closer. Great closers shouldn't be as rare as they are. There aren't many because those top pitchers are usually in starting rotations. Mo couldn't make it as a starter. Then he became a great closer. Smoltz, and even Joba and Hughes showed that an above-average starter can turn into a star closer fairly easily.
  6. Keyser S
    6. Posted by Keyser S Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:03 pm EDT

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    During his prime (late 20s to early 30s), Mariano had the most dangerous single pitch in all of baseball (perhaps even all time): his cutter.
    You can't compete with that.
  7. Rocco L
    7. Posted by Rocco L Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:10 pm EDT

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    There is less than a 2 hit per week difference between Jeter's .316 lifetime average and someone else's mediocre .250. No one pitches around Jeter to get to the next batter and his fielding is average at best. When the Yankees brought in a better SS, a leader would have insisted on changing positions for the good of the team. Jeter kept playing SS. Mo changes the way games are played. Teams only have to worry about him for one inning now, but close games used to be over after seven innings. He blows some saves, but no one else comes close to him. I don't like the Yankees and won't mind if Mo retires soon, but I hope Jeter plays forever.
  8. KZ
    8. Posted by KZ Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:23 pm EDT

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    This one's easy. Rivera all the way. Then the Yanks could have signed a shortstop who wasn't a defensive liability most years
    Besides, Jeter's selfish. He refused to surrender his position to an obviously superior A-Rod, and in my books, refusing to do what's in the best interests of your team, should get you canned.
  9. JamieYaheard
    9. Posted by JamieYaheard Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:24 pm EDT

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    Rivera never needed a fans assist on a HR
  10. DanEboy
    10. Posted by DanEboy Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:02 pm EDT

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    Give me the guy who is out there over 1000 innings a year as compared to 70. Jeter may be an overrated player in terms of stats but his leadership is invaluable. He makes his teammates better just by being the 'ballplayer' he is. I am not a Yankees fan but guys like Jeter, Chipper, Utley, etc. can be on my team anyday, guys who just show up and play. I do realize Chipper is hurt often but no one plays through it like him.
  11. Hmmmmm
    11. Posted by Hmmmmm Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:39 pm EDT

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    You don't split up Ruth Gehrig , Pippen Jordan or Jeter Rivera
  12. Ulyses Cake
    12. Posted by Ulyses Cake Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:15 am EDT

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    Not even a debate. Jeter plays every day, has always hit in the playoffs, and regardless of his diminishing ability in the field, he's an intelligent defensive player.
    Rivera is probably the greatest closer of all-time, but that doesn't make him comparable to an all-star starting SS on multiple championship teams.
  13. keisean4
    13. Posted by keisean4 Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:57 am EDT

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    i will take jeter because he going to be in the hall of fame and rivera,hes is playing the most expensive and best staduim ever,hes playing with the best franchise in mlb history,so i will take jeter
  14. blindeyelth
    14. Posted by blindeyelth Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:24 am EDT

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    I think Jeter is a good defensive player, were talking about a guy who mastered if not invented 360 throw, yall seem to forget the catches he used to make diving into the stands, bruising and cutting himself. Name any other player who did that....go on......im still waiting.............ya thats what i thought . Also he's one of the best postseason hitters ever. the only reason the pitchers dont throw around him is because hes not a power hitter...
  15. kosmo
    15. Posted by kosmo Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:36 am EDT

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    I like the point brought up by ulyses about jeter's intelligent defense (his baserunning as well...very underrated intelligence-wise). As a Jays fan i'd say they should have given them both up, but as a baseball fan I would want Jeter, for many of the reasons stated above, among others. And just to defend him against the whole "giving A-Rod SS", Arod is what, 6-3 230. Yes, at the time he was a better defensive SS, but his defense was in decline, and before the rash of bigger star SS's in the 1990's, men as large as him generally did not play SS, because middle inflield is a lot tougher on a bigger body, and the decline steeper.
  16. zubee
    16. Posted by zubee Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:19 am EDT

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    How can you possibly take one over the other in the case of Jeter and Rivera. One helped close out the final chapter each and every championship. They both contributed mightily to each other's reputations. Same as asking the question, Does Maris hit 61 homeruns without Mantle batting behind him.
  17. Joe C
    17. Posted by Joe C Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:06 am EDT

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    As a pair they have won a lot, the question should be, has there ever been a pair that have won more ws than these 2 guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  18. Brandi
    18. Posted by Brandi Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:26 am EDT

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    Without Jeter, Rivera will not get in as many games. You have to have clutch hits and a close game before a save opportunity presents itself, and Jeter directly and indirectly contributes to that. In addition, Jeter's presence in the dugout is more influential on the team than Rivera in the Pen.
    When Rivera begins to fail, there will be no one there to pick up the slack because the game will already be over. If Jeter doesn't come through on a big hit someone else can. Plus you can move him to left, or DH.
  19. ceolaf
    19. Posted by ceolaf Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:47 am EDT

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    Jeter has long been overrated. He's not one of the top 5 shortstops of all time. He's probably not one of the top 5 Yankees position players of all time. However, he has been very good for a very long, and is rather durable. He is an everyday player who would be a star on any team. Despite his defensive woes, a legitmate all-star for a decade -- maybe more.
    RIvera is also overrated, though for entirely different reasons. Closers are overrated. Saves are too easy to get, for a decent pitcher. Rivera has thrown more than 80 innings just twice in his career, and it's hard to think that 80 great innings are really more valuable than 200 really good innings. Even if he's the best 75-inning pitcher of all time, and the levage of those innings is greater than the 200 would be, he's still a 75-inning pitcher.
    So, there might be some debate about the value of starting pitchers vs. every day players, but how can anyone say that a reliever is more valuable than a position player of equal quality? You've got to go with the every day player.
    What does that leave? Could the greatest closer (75 innings) of all time really be better than the 700 plate appearance Hall of Fame shortstop -- who does not have any claim to being even one of the top 5? The Yankees have paid Jeter 60% over his career, which strongly indicates that they -- and baseball -- think the Jeter is more valuable.
    Last, I think we can address an aspect of scarcity. Rivera has supplied consistency in the closer position, something that most teams lack. There is value to the team in knowing in January that you don't need to worry about the closer losing it. However, shortstop's with consistent all-star offensive value are just as hard to find. (Look at what has happened to other teams with great shortstops during Jeter's career. The Red Sox have gone through a half dozen, and it's been a hole in the line up. The Mariners and Rangers have not found all-star replacements for A-Rod, and Tejada has not been replaced well.) If you know that you can above average production at plate from your shortstop, it makes building the rest of the team that much easier.
    Though I think that Jeter might be the most overrated player in the game -- perhaps the most overrated in the last 20-30 years -- he has still been far more valuable than Rivera.
  20. arturor
    20. Posted by arturor Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:20 am EDT

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    you take the best player at his position, and mariano is a better closer than jeter is a shorstop, mariano was lights out, jeter was great at times, but there are 9 other players that can take you to the 9th with a lead but only mariano, could close it, jeter is overrated you need to overrate him , cause he doesnt juice, but id rather face jeter with the lead than face mariano with them in a lead.
  21. Sean
    21. Posted by Sean Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:42 pm EDT

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    How is this even close? As great as Rivera has been, at his height, he pitched 80 innings in a season. Out of 1400-1500 in a season.
    No brainer - take Jeter and don't think twice.
  22. billc
    22. Posted by billc Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:02 pm EDT

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    As a Red Sox fan I couldn't turn away Jeter , The man has been only class for the pinstripes . He shows up for work everyday never heard him grumble , leads by example . Hell I'd like to call him friend . As for Mo he's not table scraps either . Both are fine Yankees and a great pair to have on a team .
  23. Brian
    23. Posted by Brian Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:37 pm EDT

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    This would be having to choose between my 2 favorite players and not an easy choice at all.
    Honestly, without either of these guys I don't think Torre's Yankees have the same run in fact there probably would not have been a dynasty at all for those Yankees.
    I think I would choose Jeter because he plays and leads everyday. But I know how important Rivera was especially in the playoffs and I really feel you could cut their shared World Series appearances and titles in half without him.
  24. G-Miller
    24. Posted by G-Miller Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:25 pm EDT

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    If Rivera is soo good, why doesn't he come in and pitch in the 7th inning? Why does he come in the 9th, when the opposing batters have PLAYED the ENTIRE game while his butt was sitting in a nice, NYC tax- payer-bought plush bullpen? Come on. Rivera wouldn't have lasted in the 1970s. Jeter's a tough SOB, winner hands down.

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