Commissioner Corner Message Board
Player One Gets ~ Patrick Kane and Dan Ellis
Player Two Gets ~ Corey Perry and Jonas Hiller
This is a keeper league (So Hiller's injury isn't a big factor) and there's 16 teams and two starting goalies each (32 goalies min), it's a head to head league and they are 14 categories and 5 of them are goalie categories, so as you can see goalies are worth a lot.
No collusion=no veto. Player values are irrelevant. If you feel 'perceived' unbalanced trades ruins leagues, wait until you have a deal vetoed from another manager because they felt it was unfair. And every other trade after that will become scrunitised. That ruins leagues, not allowing them. Let people manage their own teams.
I'm glad you are not in any of my leagues. Veto is to stop collusion, clearly none on this trade, and stop player dumping, clearing not the case here. Sure the side getting Hiller and Perry win, but not by a ton. Are you sure Ellis will not have a big year next year? Are you sure Hiller will not continue his issues? No you are not. So why veto this trade? And 5 of 14 categories is not goalie heavy. I'm in one where 7 of 13 are goalie stats, now that is goalie importance.
When gauging a deal like this, a guy must take two things into consideration; a player's current performance, and a player's expected performance. The way that I see it according to these two factors are as follows:
Current Performance (Assuming that PIMS count in your league):
Hiller > Ellis (by a country mile)
Perry > Kane
Hiller > Ellis
Perry = Kane
I think it's pretty clear that there isn't a gamble with Ellis, because he is a sure lose. Using logic, I too would have voted against this trade because there is a very obvious winner. For a fair trade to get processed, there should be at least one strong argument for both sides, with the possibility of either side coming out on top. I don't see a very conclusive argument for Kane and Ellis, which is why I agree with the decision.
- 2 Replies to Braden
your logic is flawed.
ellis > hiller (by a country mile).
ellis is um...playing well.
hiller isn't playing.
"G Dan Ellis, who stopped 23 shots to record his third consecutive victory, is 3-0-1 with a 2.13 goals-against average and .918 save percentage since being acquired Feb. 24 from Tampa Bay. Over his past eight appearances, including his final four with the Lightning, Ellis is 5-0-2 with 1.95 and .925 numbers."
Anybody who insists they know this is a dimwit.
That is a very amature way of analyzing a trade. So many people think there is a clear "winner" and "loser" to a trade, which is, again, very amature. Without knowing each teams trades, we cannot acurately determine who gets the better end. The motive for a trade can lay much farther beyond the players involved in the trade.
At this point, with Hiller's injury, if you are saying that he is still better than Ellis by a "country mile", you clearly are not looking deep enough. Take a look at Hiller's injury, and his injury history, along with his contract, the Ducks cap dilemma, and you will see that there is at least a reason to argue that Hiller may be moved in the offseason, or at the very least, may miss considerable time for the remainder of the season. Taking further into account is the fact that his injury is so dizarre, and may be reason for concern going forward.
Just something to think about!
it depends on how many keepers you can keep ot how many managers.
To me, this is clearly a trade of Kane for Perry.
The other Goalies are just added.
So i think the Veto is not wise.
Sometimes you got to let the players make their own decisions.
Not worry about a Veto, because a trade is 1% lopsided.
Perry for kane is an even trade i think.
Bad Veto here.
Goalies may be worth alot, but so are the offensive player.
You know what you are getting with Wingers & Centers.
Goalies are like Pitchers in baseball.
Besides a select few, they are too unpredictable.
Just like with Pitt goalie.
other 2 goalies are not even worth being kept.
I can think of better goalies.
- 1 Reply to Manuel R
There is also times where for example Kane & Perry.
You try to trade perry to get kane to no avail.
Sometimes you have to offer more to get THAT player you need.
I did that sometimes.
I am losing in my keeper league to injuries.
So I offered Some good players & a descent keeper for a HUGE keeper.
Sometimes there is a reason for a trade.
Just got to be cool with it.
Managers are responsible for their team.
Let them make their own decisions if must be.
As long as there is not Cheating,colision & a far out crazy trade like Kessler for Tanguay or something in that nature.
There is nothing wrong with this trade. It's definitely not cheating, but more importantly, it's not even obviously unfair. Goalies are so unpredictable and there's no telling what Ellis will do in Anaheim. If I owned Hiller in a keeper league, I would be a little worried right now too.
Kane and Perry are both 80 point wingers, so fair enough there. Hiller is obviously better than Ellis statistically, but hes hurt for an unknown amount of time. The guy is willing to lose a better goalie to get one that will play. Nothing wrong here.
In all honesty, In a keeper leauge, I think player one has a slight edge anyways. Kane is better than Perry, and people are underestimating Ellis. With this bizzare "injury" Hiller has, they are going to be extra careful with him going forward, and expect to see Ellis to get the majority of the starts this year, and anything can happen next year.
- 1 Reply to Jay
vetoes suck...there are good trades and bad ones...why does it have to be fair according to what others think is fair???...you take the fun away of trading and pulling off a steal...it happens in the real world so why not in fantasy? just becuz it sucks to be you? becuz you feel it will hurt your chances?...the only trades that should be vetoed are those detrimental to league interest, sort of like a Crosby for 2 or 3 bums...aside from that let it ride...just becuz you aren't the beneficiary doesn't mean it's should be vetoed...it kills leagues becuz it stiffles the creativity, astuteness of the good GM's, it kills leagues becuz when vetoes are done like in this case, those vetoes then have the feeling they have been had and thus will at their turn veto other trades out of revenge...i've seen it happen...as far as i'm concerned those who veto trades are a bunch of crybabies and losers...
Trades like these are difficult to gage. If there are other mitagating circumstances, like picks in one team in the playoffs and the other out...etc
I not sure I can see why you would Veto this trade? The players kane and Perry are the same slight edge to Perry in my mind. So what slight advantage he gains in Perry he looses in Hiller. Goalie stats are huge in these Head to Head leagues so not having a quality, or a goalie to start hurt you now Perry and Hiller are good solid keepers. Kane is a keeper for sure, but Elis is not.
I would have allowed this trade to go through....
anybody who thinks this was a veto able trade is out of thier minds... prime example over the last 3 years look what has happened between thomas and rask.. anything can happen in net... look at last years rookie goalies and how well they played and how well they play now... ellis is coming from a team that was way more offensive than they were defensive and thats all changed now, you might see him pounce on the #1 spot if hiller doesnt come back %110.
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