Commissioner Corner Message Board
How about adding Shootout Goals Scored for forwards in Fantasy Hockey 08?
There is games decided by shootout's almost every day so how come this statistic isn't available for H2H scoring leagues??
Let's get with the program Yahoo!
Personally, I would prefer if they did add shootout stats. That way it wouldn't result in similar discussions year after year. The shootout goal is just as random as the GWG and requires a strategic player selection similar to SHP.
At the end of the day, the league as a whole can decide at the beginning of the season whether they should include the stat or not, just like any other stat. It's all about preference.
my feeling on this is that shootout goals do not count for season stats so they should not count for fantasy stats...saying that it is fantasy and that should be left up to your league and commish...personally im against shootout stats
Punch and Freezebone make some very good points within the body of their arguments.
Personally I don't like deciding games based on a shootout in the first place, nothing wrong with a hard fought (or in Lemare's case hard trapped) battle to a standstill, be it 0/0 or 100 points per side. Ties reflect the balance of play between two combatants; a forced victory, which is what the shootout is - and in no way does a shootout reflect team play, nor does it really reward individual skill, because eventually someone has to wallow in an empty hallow victory - it's just a matter of time...
As to awarding points based on shootout goals, there is some merit it too it, but more merit lies in awarding for saves because, as Punch so rightly pointed out, it's the goalies that are the common factor and thread.
If points are to be awarded for shootout goals it should only be for the tie breaking goal and not all others that occurred during the shootout - because it is only the final goal that decides the outcome of the game. Goals that occur during regulation time effect the flow of the game and influence the efforts and outcomes of all participants. In Overtime, a lone goal decides the victor, there is no chance for rebuttal. The shootout in contrast offers a chance to neutralize a goal, therefor a shootout goal that is countered by one from an opponent should count for nothing because after it has been nullified it has no influence or impact on the outcome of the game.
I would probably never draft Jarrko Ruttu, and if he was on my team I would be reluctant to play him unless I needed penalties - but he is money in the shootout. However I am not going to waste a roster spot or a game on the slim possibility that their might be a shootout and Ruttu might get a shot that might be the winning goal. It's hard enough guessing which goalie is going to start, let alone win on any given night - shootout specialist's are a minutiae that is best left unseen.
What gets my goat most about the shootout is that it has destroyed one of the most elegant moments of the game, the penalty shot. Penalty shots are like a mountain orchard that blooms occasionally in the alpine meadows, their rarity and beauty when successful can not only turn the tide of the game - but entire seasons have swung for or naught with that solitary flash of the blade and gasp of the crowd - and were events that became part of a players legend and enshrined in a teams lore. And now we get to see 9 of them in rapid succession as the last act of mediocrity and compromise at the end of about 12% of the games.
- 1 Reply to Jay O
I just kinda breezed through all the muck and arguments, and I have thought about this topic on many occassions. But another question, if you are going to count the player stats for shootouts, what about goalie stats??? If you count one, you have to count the other. And if the goalie lets in 2 goals on 2 shots, your % and GAA just went to hell. If you count one you have to count the other.
Here is the only thing I do find as a kind of happy medium...a separate "league" for shootouts. NHL.com does of a similar nature. A couple of ways it can be done.
1. You either pick "X" amount of players per night to possibly be in a shoot out.
2. You draft people just like now for only shootouts.
At this point, it can only count skaters and not goalies for stats.
This is a very good suggestion due to the number of shootouts that have occurred this year. Anyone who scores a goal in the shootout presently receives no credit for a goal; yet someone who scores a PP goal gets credit for a goal, PPG and PPP in my league. This seems to place a premium on PP specialists such as Philadelphia's Knuble and Montreal's Kovalev. It seems that the player scoring the clinching goal in a shootout should receive credit for a GWG also. No goalie stats except for Wins should count with respect to the shootout.
- 1 Reply to joe
Trying to shake the hornets nest, are ya?
The fact that the goalies have to work much harder that the shooters, should be reason enough to keep awarding a goalie the win.
Otherwise, we'd have to bring some sort of 'tie' stat for the goalies. Not worth the hassel.
- 3 Replies to wilcofan
Your comparison to Face Offs and Shots Blocked is not valid since those categories bring to many insignificant players into a statistic such as 3rd and 4th liners as 3rd defensemen. The shootout scorers are usually players who score during the playing time unless Washington and the Rangers get together for one of the 12 round shooting fiascos.
Obviously shootout goals should be in a separate category altogether. And Goalie performances in shootouts too.
IMHO, these are definitely 2nd tier stats, like faceoffs and shot %. Or maybe one of those that you wouldn't necessarily draft specifically for, but would certainly use as a deciding factor when choosing between 2 players ( like +/-).
Fisch is right, they count the 2nd goal as the winner, in that proposed scenario. The reasoning: because that was the one that locked it out. Otherwise, we wouldn't know if that first one would have been the winner *because the other team never got to shoot their next shot*. The other team would have shot again if that second goal didn't lock it up. I know it seems weird since we are used to the first go-ahead goal being the winner, but in the shootout it's the locking out goal that does it. It's the one that prevented the other team from even having another go.
Also, please be a little more respectful to other posters, Dingo is a very helpful and intelligent contributor to the questions asked here. You can certainly disagree with a little more class than that. I don't agree with him that it is an unimportant stat, but I will say that it is a fringe stat that I don't care to have in any of my future leagues.
I do feel that Yahoo should include it for anyone who might like to have it.
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