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  • Cole Cole Feb 7, 2011 10:34 PM Flag

    Preventing Abuse of Pitching Stats

    accidentally posted this in wrong category earlier..reposting here

    I run a 12 team 11x11 keeper league.Yes I know 11x11 is a lot of categories, but it keeps things interesting since there are always plenty of categories in play on Sunday.

    We revisit the stat categories every year to address any issues and ast year we had some guys abuse the pitching categories by keeping as many as 12 pitchers on their rosters and making tons of moves every week to get extra starts. There were several other issues with these managers, so we've replaced them for this season, but we want to make sure nothing like that can happen again.

    Our pitching categories last year: (W,L,CG,SHO,SV,BB,K,ERA, WHIP,QS,BSV).

    I think most of the league agrees SHO should go, but we're trying to decide what else to do. Ideas being thrown around are:
    a) replacing SHO with one of: (K/9IP, K:BB Ratio, BB/9IP, H)
    b) implementing weekly transaction limits
    c) implementing weekly games started limits (not sure if this setting is available)
    d) implementing weekly innings pitched maximum

    Any experience dealing with these issues? If so, what specific controls worked best in your league? Thanks

    p.s. i'm also open to other pitching category suggestions, but we're not looking to reduce our total count.

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    • You really need to address max transactions. I usually cap my leagues at 80 moves for the entire season, including playoffs.

      Set a total moves max or weekly max and your troubles will be solved for the most part.

    • Try replacing shutouts with homeruns allowed.

    • Why do you have W if you have QS. I like QS better because it reflects the pitchers performance better, rather than what his team did.

    • One of my favorite topics and something that took a while to develop in my league.

      W,L,CG,SHO,SV,BB,K,ERA, WHIP,QS,BSV

      We currently use, mixed league, IP, W, L, SV, K, ERA, WHIP, and Holds.

      Dealt with similar issues that you dealt with. Keep in mind that this will need to be tweaked, per your league dependent upon the number of managers. We have 12 and this worked flawlessly last year, and many years before.Max move in the league we set to 75 last year, and that was too many. I am going to move it to 60 this year. Don't control it weekly because that kind of takes away from the ability to manage.

      Roster as follows. SP (2), RP (4), P (1) We keep it this way because again, it promotes the managers to make a decision. Since we use so many starters, it's not going to make you or break you for a week, but it will make you think, and more often than not, make the wrong decision on who to start or sit on any given night. With 12 teams, we all average about 80 innings a week so you have time to make the numbers back up if you get shafted on a SP. A lot of cases there are guys who pitchers fall right and they have over 100 per week in a 12 team league. Despite that, you would be shocked at how often it came down to Sunday on who wins the week pitching. All my guys love it, very pitcher heavy, but extremely fun..

      Categories. Admittedly, this is all preference, but we just try not to duplicate. QS isn't bad, but we let that wash out because when we own every 4th starter in the league and many 5th slot guys, it's something that does even out. CG are few so you know that already. BB's are assumed in WHIP so we don't use that. Instead of BS, we use Holds, which took us three different years to perfect, but we nailed it last year. The key is having a full league of active managers. Great category once it was implemented correctly. The only problem with Holds is that if you are in a shallow league, less than 10 teams, managers have a tendency to hoard either closers or set up men. So basically they punt the category even in a head to head league. With 12 active managers, everyone has two solid closers and at least one sold middle relief guy, usually two, but that second guy is generally streaky in terms of production.

      With that being said, IP will help you out a lot I think. I know it seems cheap, but it's really not because it's more of a greedy category. Someone may want to win the IP for the week, but in a lot of cases, when you are pushing and starting you lower end guys, you are risking losing the Loss, WHIP, and ERA category. So again, it makes you really manage your team and decide on what you want more. Play it safe and win three categories for certain, or go for them all and risk losing a few. You start a fourth or fifth starter on a Sat or Sun against a great hitting team and you just exploded your ERA, WHIP, and Losses trying to get the IP.

      Ah, last but not least, I almost forgot. Set the min innings pitched. We use 40 which really isn't that important for us any longer, but if your league is still developing you need it. That will make the rosters adjust accordingly to the point where you have balance in your league.

      Good luck.

    • If you really like your league and the people in it, then you should make it a money league. It doesnt even have to be that much really, but you'd be amazed at how people change their managing when money is on the line. Guys who make a million moves when its free all of a sudden get tightfisted when they have to throw money out there. I guarantee that youll stop seeing guys stream 5 or 6 pitchers per week if its costing them money.

      As for your stats, I'd cut out BB (WHIP already accounts for this), QS, BSV, SHO, and add in K/9. And in general, the more ratio type categories you have, the less likely that streaming pitchers will affect your league. If you make your league 6 x 6 and go W, K, SV, ERA, WHIP, K/9, then youll see alot less streaming. Sure, someone could pick up a million pitchers a week, but I guarantee doing so will cause their ERA, WHIP, and K/9 to suck. Each person will win 3 cats that week.

      • 1 Reply to J D
      • It's already a money league and entry isn't cheap. That's why people got so heated about any perceived manipulation of the rules.

        From my early discussions with the league it looks like we're going to do the following to our stats:

        Pitching
        K --> K/9IP
        BB --> BB/9IP
        SV & BSV --> NSV
        SHO --> HR Allowed

        Batting
        Remove H

        That takes us down to 10x10, removes a bit of redundancy and gets rid of the cumulative pitching stats, but one manager also suggested adding 2 "holy grail" categories - Cycle and No-Hitter, and that idea has been very popular, so we'll still technically be at 11x11.

        We're planning to implement a higher minimum innings threshold, sounds like ~30 is the way to go. Max transactions is still up for debate.

        Thanks for all the suggestions.

    • DEAR COLE:

      i READ WITDH INTERESTS THE DILEMMA YOU HAD WITH PITCHERS AD THEIR WOES.
      I THINK THAT IF U STOP WITH YOUR CATEGORIES, YOU HAVE DEFEATED YOURSELF. DONT CHANGE WHAT YOUR IDEALS ARE IN FANTASY BASEBALL.
      YOU CAN NEVERF STOP THE WILL TO WIN IN FANTASY SPORTS. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, JUST LIEK SEX, WE ALL HAVE THE THRILL OF WINNIN AND THE FEELING OF DERFEAT THAT WE GETE WHEN THAT HAPPENS.
      WHAT TO DO?
      I DO NOTD HAVE THE ANSWER FOR YOU BUT AS JIMMY V, SAID "dont give up, dont ever give up"

      yes jimmy v. wasmy hero the one coach i looked up to in evey way in which you and i live our lives. he said the right things at the right tdime. i do not do this i seem to always gete mysself in trouble but that is the way life is.
      but as Jimmy v. and i both say to you friend 'DONT GIVE UP, DONT EVER GIVE UP.

      if you need a sub manager , i will gladly fill in for one of your managers of a team.

      jim carlson
      plumtable324@yahoo.com

    • With 11 categories for pitching, why bother picking up any relievers?

    • forgot to add that we also limit adds to 4 per week and usually 50 for the season.

    • CG SHO and QS are garbage stats. The argument that WHIP and BB's are the same thing is invalid. BB's are cumulative and WHIP is an average, streaming might not screw your WHIP but it can definitely up your BB total.

      Blown saves isn't a bad category either, puts a little more value in to the higher end closers, although if you are counting losses also it's a bit redundant.

      Personally I like W's, L's, ERA/WHIP, BB's, K's, Saves and K/9.

    • I had the same problem in my league a few years ago. 10 man, 10x10. we simply made it a rule that you can have no more than X amount of starters on your team at any given time (7 in my league), if someone goes over the limit the comissioner drops the excess starters. This worked really well with guys complying with the rule.

      Also replacing K's with K/9 takes away any advantage of a team throwing more innings in any given week. After all why should someone be rewarded merely for throwing more innings?

      I wonder what new stats they will have this year if any. Good luck

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