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  • Charles Charles Dec 8, 2009 9:29 PM Flag

    New Orleans Defense.....NFL rulebook Rule 3, Section 35, Article 1

    Someone forward this information to Yahoo Sports.....I'm in other leagues (non Yahoo)......in my opinion, it should be very clear per the NFL rule below. New Orleans defense should be awarded a Defensive Tochdown.

    NFL rulebook Rule 3, Section 35, Article 1: "Whenever a team is in possession, it is the Offense and, at such time, its opponent is the Defense."

    Very clear....change of possesion, per the NFL rules, makes the Saints players the "defense"....i.e. Defensive Touchdown.

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    • Does anybody know for sure?

      In our league, 1 team had NO DEF and 1 team had Meachem. Both teams were fighting for the last playoff spot. The team w/ NO DEF lost by 1.5 and the team w/ Meachem won by .28 of a point.

      We're in agreement that Meachem should get the TD pts, but why isn't NO DEF getting the 2 pts for fumble recovery since 'technically' they were on DEF when they recovered the fumble? Then Meachem became an offensive player once again. This is all per NFL rules.

      I am commissioner in our league so the heat is on me right now to make this right. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle this one? If it wasn't going to affect the last playoff spot it would be no big deal, but...!

    • In this instance.....the offense takes on a defensive posture the moment the int. occurs...and fumbles-tackles-tds. that take place in that instant are scored in that mode....to say that... that means the def. can never score a TD then... is comparing apples to oranges....Meachem scored as a result of a defensive play and should be awarded pts. for a TD and FR...pts. should go as a DEF. score as well..and..pts. should not count against Wash D... Let common sense rule.... I suspect that peoples views are skewed by how this play impacted their match..but..when you remove that... It's pretty straightforward as to what you saw on the play....

    • One other problem excluding the TD. NO D should have been awarded the fumble recovery. This is what was done the prior week when Welker had a fumble recovery. I can see the TD going to Meachem just cant quite understand the overturn on the NO D fumble recovery.

      The biggest problem though is the way YAHOO handled the situation. They should have never credited the NO D with the TD at a later time. They further compounded the problem by not "fixing" the problem until late Monday night. Then when they do change the points for a second time they do not put out an explanation. Instead they make everyone email YAHOO and complain. Why not put a story out on the site about why they scored it the way they did? Just makes them look bad. Anyway good luck to everyone in the playoffs!

    • Problem is Yahoo hasn't rewarded the Meachem points to New Orleans Def, Yet.

      • 2 Replies to Be
      • Bernie, Actually Yahoo! originally did give the points to NO Defense, but by tuesday morning, they had corrected their error.

        there is no plausible scenario you can fabricate out of Meachem Gate that gives a legit reason as to why the defense should get points.

        In week 5 of 2003, Michael Doss of Indianapolis intercepted a pass from Brad Johnson of Tampa Bay. Doss then fumbled the ball, and WR Keenan McCardell of Tampa Bay picked up the fumble and returned it 57 yards for a TD. We score the play as a 57-yard offensive fumble return TD for McCardell. To further clarify, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers began the play on offense. After the interception, according to NFL rules, the defense becomes the offense and vice versa. This is what causes the confusion. But if you really take that logic to its conclusion, it would stand to reason that there could never be a defensive TD in fantasy football, since once a defensive team intercepts a pass, by NFL rules that defense has now become the offense. Additionally, let's take that interpretation and reapply it to when McCardell gained possession of the ball - he was back on offense again. There is no scenario where McCardell's TD can be credited to the Bucs defense, and the same stands true with the Robert Meachem scenario that occurred during week 13 of this year.

        The Tampa Bay defense lost the points associated with the defensive TD in question.

        Yahoo! Sports does not recognize the change of possession nor does it switch the Tampa Bay players from offense to defense on this play. As such, when McCardell recovered the fumble and returned it for a touchdown, no touchdown was credited to the Tampa Bay defense.
        --
        On any regular turnover in fantasy football, the defense does not become the offense once they get the ball (hence why points for the takeaway are awarded to the defense). In this case (based on that same logic) Meachem did not become a defensive player once the ball changed hands, but in fact remained an offensive player.

        And that's why Robert Meachem gets the points and New Orleans defense does not.

      • I read on an earlier post that someone received an email saying that this will be reviewed further. Does anyone know the outcome of that email, or has their decision been made and it's final?

    • HAHAHAHA!!!! That would mean that when Meachem took the ball back he would have been back on offense. You didn't think over those rules one time before you posted did you. Geesh

      • 1 Reply to Rob M
      • The thread is about NO def....on a side note, IMO Meachem should get credit for an OFF TD...if so, the next argument would be if it should be considered a rushing TD from the spot of Meachem's fumble recovery, a Passing TD because the down started as a pass, a misc TD for Meachem, or MISC TD for NO team.

        A cluster$%^& to say the least. This scoring could make a huge difference on who makes the playoffs and who misses in leagues around the country

    • According to the official NFL rulebook, NO should not get credit for the def TD because NO was the offense until the down ended. Look at the note where it says TEAM A remains team A until the down is over. When the down ended, NO OFFENSE had scored

      Section 35 Team A and B, Offense and Defense
      Article 1 Whenever a team is in possession (3-2-7), it is the Offense and, at such
      time, its opponent is the Defense.
      Article 2 The team that puts the ball in play is Team A, and its opponent is Team B. For
      brevity, a player of Team A is referred to as A1 and his teammates as A2, A3, etc.
      Opponents are B1, B2, etc.
      Note: A team becomes Team A when it has been designated to put ball in play, and it
      remains Team A until a down ends, even though there might be one or more changes of
      possession during the down. This is in contrast with the terms Offense and Defense.
      Team A is always the offense when a down starts, but becomes the defense if and when
      B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession

      • 2 Replies to Jim
      • You are misinterpreting the rules. The NFL doesn't care if it is classified as defensive or offensive. They call it miscellaneous. The need for the classification is strictly a fantasy issue.

        See more on my thread from last night if you need more information.

      • Ultimately, Washington never secured possession during the down because they lost possession during the down when Meachem stripped it.

        I think the key here is there were multiple possessions during the down.

        NFL rules state that the team that puts the ball into play is the offense and stays the offense until the down is over even though there may be one or more changes of possession during the down

    • i think its pretty simple... the new orleans defense did not score the touchdown, the offense did... yea sure there was change of possession... but robert meachem, drew brees, and the rest of the OFFENSIVE PLAYERS were on the field... its just a very bizzare way for the offense to get a touchdown... stop crying because you lost and probably didnt make the playoffs

    • They screwed me on this too. I would have won my game if the defense got credited for the touchdown..which SHOULD of been the case

      • 2 Replies to matt
      • my commish changed it without getting approval from the league and now hes suddenly back in the hunt

      • Matt, your retarded. try to read this whole post before u just skip to the bottom and click reply.

        Originally New Orleans Defense was credited with the TD, but by Tuesday morning they had corrected the error, by removing the points from New Orleans and giving them to the player (Robert Meachem).

        There were two changes in possession, not just one (according to NFL rules). First New Orleans Offense turns the ball over and they go on Defense. Then they force a fumble and go back on Offense. Either way you slice it their Offense scored. We actually can't use the NFL rules with fantasy football rules in this case, since the NFL’s official stance is that a defense can never score 6 points since a defense never "possess" the ball, a requirement for scoring a TD (because in real football, the defense becomes the offense when they acquire the football), whereas in fantasy football it is very possible and quite common for a defense to score a TD.
        --
        This is actually not the first time in which this has happened, and here’s what Yahoo! did back in 2003;

        EXAMPLE: In week 5 of 2003, Michael Doss of Indianapolis intercepted a pass from Brad Johnson of Tampa Bay. Doss then fumbled the ball, and WR Keenan McCardell of Tampa Bay picked up the fumble and returned it 57 yards for a TD. We score the play as a 57-yard offensive fumble return TD for McCardell. To further clarify, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers began the play on offense. After the interception, according to NFL rules, the defense becomes the offense and vice versa. This is what causes the confusion. But if you really take that logic to its conclusion, it would stand to reason that there could never be a defensive TD in fantasy football, since once a defensive team intercepts a pass, by NFL rules that defense has now become the offense. Additionally, let's take that interpretation and reapply it to when McCardell gained possession of the ball - he was back on offense again. There is no scenario where McCardell's TD can be credited to the Bucs defense, and the same stands true with the Robert Meachem scenario that occurred during week 13 of this year.

        The Tampa Bay defense lost the points associated with the defensive TD in question.

        Yahoo! Sports does not recognize the change of possession nor does it switch the Tampa Bay players from offense to defense on this play. As such, when McCardell recovered the fumble and returned it for a touchdown, no touchdown was credited to the Tampa Bay defense.
        --
        On any regular turnover in fantasy football, the defense does not become the offense once they get the ball (hence why points for the takeaway are awarded to the defense). In this case (based on that same logic) Meachem did not become a defensive player once the ball changed hands, but in fact remained an offensive player.

        And that's why Robert Meachem gets the points and New Orleans defense does not.

    • I dont care how others did it. Meachum is Offense, simple as that. If a defense intercepts, fumbles, then get it back again and run it in it is a Defensive. Offense fumbles then gets it back they are Offense. Simple as that.

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