General Message Board
Let's forget Brandon Webb and Tim Lincecum for a second and compare CC Sabathia to the guy who was traded to the same division a few days later: Rich Harden.
Here are their numbers since their trades to the NL Central:
Sabathia: 11 starts, 88 innings, 9 wins, 1.43 ERA, 0.98 WHIP, 85 K, 18 BB
Harden: 9 starts, 54 innings, 4 wins, 1.50 ERA, 0.91 WHIP, 75 K, 18 BB
And here are the two things that I'm going to hear about: Wins and innings pitched.
Sure, Harden has fewer wins. But who cares? Since when do wins make a pitcher? Do you really think Bartolo Colon (21-8, 3.48 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 157 K) deserved the 2005 AL CYA over Johan Santana (16-7, 2.87 ERA, 0.97 WHIP, 238 K)? My point exactly.
As far as innings pitched goes, it's absolutely amazing that Harden, given his injury history, hasn't missed a start since the beginning of May, so let's not penalize him for not going all Sabathia on us and venturing well past the century mark in pitches every start.
A few more points of interest:
-Sabathia throws three pitches: fastball, changeup, slider. To protect his ever-fragile arm, Harden goes with just a fastball and a changeup.
-Take a look at their overall stats:
Sabathia: 29 starts, 210.3 innings, 15 wins, 2.82 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 208 K, 52 BB
Harden: 22 starts, 131 innings, 9 wins, 1.99 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 167 K, 49 BB
In short, Sabathia's not even a clear-cut choice over another pitcher who's only been in the NL for a few months. Considering that, how in the world do you pick him over Lincecum or Webb?
And another thing: The Cy Young Award is reserved for the best pitcher of the year in each league. It's not for the guy who turned it on after switching leagues. If Barry Zito made a complete 180 and caught fire back in July, and ended up going 10-1 with a 1.60 ERA and a 0.95 WHIP over the rest of the season, he would end the year at 13-13 with something like a 3.75 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP. Those don't look like Cy Young numbers to me. Heck, look at Sabathia with the Indians this year. If he didn't get traded and put up his Milwaukee numbers in Cleveland, he'd be nowhere near Cliff Lee in the AL Cy Young talk.
So why on earth is CC Sabathia in the NL Cy Young conversation? It makes absolutely no sense.
First only reason why your even fighting CC if cuz your a dirty cubs fan obiously second GO WHITE SOX!!!!!! Now First the biggest thing of the CY YOUNG award is wins genious besides the fact theres a bunch of great pitchers in the NL besides CC and rich...Your trust tring to favor the grubs over Mili cuz your a loser like the cubs who will choke like the last 100 years.....
Harden can't last past the 5th or 6th inning. CC goes 8 innings almost every time. How many complete games? The Brewers are almost unbeatable when CC is on the hill. The same cannot be said for Harden.
You can't give the Cy Young to Harden when he isn't even the best pitcher on his team. Big Z is better.
I think CC has crept into the race with Webb struggling lately and Lincecum playing on a crap team.
The only knock is CC only played half a season with the Brewers.
CC deserves the Cy Young, but will probably lose out to Webb or Lincecum. Both are deserving as well.
cc is def a candidate!!!! hes a CG machine which helps preserve that terrible bullpen out there...if it wasnt for cc the brewers wouldnt even be in playoff talks...Truthfully Lincecum may even deserve it most 16 wins on that offensively challenged team is very impressive...id say cc or lincecum right now...webb lost his shot in my eyes over the last couple weeks
What you don't understand is that CC has been better than Harden, whether the difference be small or large, no award is given to 2nd best. Which is exactly why Harden is not in Cy Young contention. Comparing CC and Harden is very easy to do. But comparing CC to Webb and Tim L is much tougher to do because of the different paths their seasons have traveled.
to go 15-3 on one of the worst teams in basebalal is amazing.
to pitch9-0 w/ 6 CG and a near no hitter is also amazing..
b webb is also amazing..
give it to any of em and im satisfied.. but cliff lee should win by far..
I believe this rant is a moot point. C.C. Sabathia probably hasn't been in the National League long enough or pitched enough games/innings to qualify for the Cy Young.
Plus, I believe Brandon Webb will win, or perhaps Edinson Volquez, who is 16-5 with the seventh best ERA in the NL.
Other possibilities (NL ERA leaders): Tim Lincecum (15-3, 2.60 ERA ), Jake Peavy (9-9, 2.69 ), Johan Santana (12-7, 2.71 ), Ben Sheets (12-7, 2.97 ), Ryan Dempster (15-6, 2.99 ), Cole Hamels (12-8, 3.01 )
My point is just that I don't see Sabathia getting the Cy Young. 9-0 with a 1.43 ERA, 6 CGs and 3 SHOs in 11 starts is a very impressive feat, but he will have fewer than 20 NL starts when the season ends. Brandon Webb is likely to finish with more WINS in the NL than Sabathia has STARTS.
Volquez, Dempster, and Aaron Cook could all reach 20 wins with a strong finish as well. I doubt Sabathia gets the award.
- 3 Replies to Army Strong
I don't think there's an amount of innings you need to toss to qualify for the Cy Young Award, but if there is, it can't be much.
Dennis Eckersley and Eric Gagne both won the award with about 80 innings.
There is no way that Volquez gets the Cy Young. Webb would clearly get it before him if you are going on the Wins issue. Lincecum is also a front runner.
No player who has switched leagues midseason has ever won the Cy Young or MVP. It won't happen this year either.
- 1 Reply to John P
Obviously Sabathia's good. I never said he wasn't.
But over the past few weeks, I've read articles at SI and ESPN and a few other places that have said Sabathia should win the award. And there are obviously more than a few people here who agree with that.
That's where my reaction came from.
What did CC do to you and your family that you hate him so much?
Fine if you think that CC doesn't deserve it because he hasn't been in the league long enough ... but too say he doesn't warrant it more than Harden when he has contributed 2/3 more innings and because he throws different pitches?
- 1 Reply to Dan
So I guess you don't think it's amazing that a guy can dominate with just a fastball and a changeup?
Somewhere in here, I admitted that Sabathia's got the edge over Harden because he pitches deep into games. But my point was that there isn't much difference between these two guys, so why would anyone vote for Sabathia over Webb and Lincecum when Sabathia hasn't been that much better than Harden, who hasn't been mentioned in any Cy Young talk?
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