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  • Wayne Dutch Wayne Dutch Dec 22, 2010 11:28 AM Flag

    Howard or Cano

    who is the better keeper?

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    • High expectations of repeating what he did last year? ok.

    • Now your just being silly. No where did i say Jose Bautista is like Cano. I said peoples point view vary from player to player and i was using Bautista as an example of this. I don't think you are actually reading what i write, and just picking out pieces to argue with and ignoring the obvious facts that i have stated making this a pointless debate.

      Enjoy your Cano, i wish him the best, and hope he can meet your high expectations.

    • Well, I'm actually a Cardinal fan so Pujols beats Cano, Howard Votto or anyone else you want to name as far as I'm concerned. My original point, which I did a poor job of expressing, was Howard is just as revelant as a keeper as Cano. Howard is 31 and Cano 28, not a huge difference. Howard will start to decline sooner than Cano but I expect Howard still has a couple more high HR, high RBI seasons left in him. I think Cano is very near his peak and what he did last year is about what you can expect from him the next 3 or 4 years and that's not bad. In fact, that'll probably good enough to make him the number one 2B over that period.

      The other point was, you can take Howard and K.Johnson, or Cano and Morneau as you said John, and have a pretty good combo.

      So in other words, it's really not a huge deal whether you keep Cano or Howard as long as you can get a good 1B or 2B to compliment them.

      Also, FYI on ESPN, Cano is ranked 9 and Howard 17. On MDC, it's Cano 10, Howard 15. So I think we're getting all worked up about a pretty small difference. It really just depends on what other players you have on your fantasy team.

    • Come on man! You’re still spewing BS. Now your comparing Cano to Jose Bautista! Bautista was garbage until his age 30 season. Of course you should be skeptical of him repeating. On the other hand Cano was a highly touted rookie that has improved exponentially every season and then had his break out year at age 27! That’s exactly the type of progression you should look for in a perennial all-star.

      If you don’t want to acknowledge that Mauer was ranked so high prior to the 2010 season because his numbers were great for any position in 2009, fine. If you’re in a league that doesn’t count OBP, SLG or OPS ok… but most guys that read message boards on fantasy baseball daily typically have a league that goes beyond the normal 5x5 settings. The fact that Mauer is still considered the top Catcher and yet his ADP and Pre-season rankings will drop significantly this season based off his 2010 stats proves my point easily and unequivocally.
      Now as for your claim that Howard suffered because the guys around him had off seasons and simultaneously dismissing my defense that Cano suffered the same is funny. You point out that the Yankees scored a ridiculous amount of runs. That is true, they did. Maybe more if not for the off years by the guys I mentioned. If you don’t use OBP, SLG, OPS in your FANTASY leagues that doesn’t mean that the stats aren’t real and that lower totals in those categories on the CAREER averages for Jeter and Teix didn’t cost Cano even more RBI opportunity. It’s funny how you use the defense for Howard but I can’t for Cano, especially considering that the Phillies were second only to the REDS (Votto’s reds) in runs scored in the NL for 2010!!!!!

      If you had read my previous post you would have also seen that the final paragraph was addressed to both you and “hammer”. So that’s who I was talking to about being a homer. You are intitled to your opinion, of course. But it seems that your defense holds no water once again, “Big Guy”.

    • You can reasonably expect 100/23/100/3/.310 from Cano

      Howard 105/45/135/1/.270

      extra HR/RBI vs. better avg? In a league where HR's a dissapearing quickly, for one year I'll take Howard, even though 1b is a deeper position. This goes particularly in shallow leagues (12 teams or less) where premium talent regardless of position makes a difference.

      In deeper leagues, or keeper leagues that allow you to keep players forever, position scarcity and age would favor Cano.

      IMO

    • 2base is a very weak positon so I think this gives Cano the upper hand but it really depends on whom else you are keeping weather or not i would let Howards bat go

    • I'm pretty sure you’re not saying 2nd base is deeper than 1st, but I wanna be sure. So are you? You named some good options at 2nd. But again I’d take Cano and Morneau over Howard and Johnson. I don’t have to talk about what Cano CAN DO, I can talk about what he did do. Cano batted .319, drove in 109, scored 103 runs, and hit 29 homers. Cano also missed Arod for a month, had Teixeira and Jeter produce career low numbers in front of him and he still raked. Cano had a better year than Howard THIS YEAR, period. Cano does play at a shallower position. If you could argue not taking Kevin Youkilis until the 10th spot at his position than you have the deepest position in baseball.

      The question was, who is the better keeper? Now are you really gonna sit there and say Howard is the better keeper? Really?
      Cano is "projected" to be a great player and that is why he is ranked in both ESPN and MLB.com's pre season top 10 overall. So, if you’re gonna say, "everyone talks about what Cano can do", that’s fine. That’s what fantasy baseball IS, i mean come on. The goal is to find breakouts players before they break out. In this case Cano already has!

      Also Peter Gammons may have picked the Indians to be a team to watch in 2010 but he was also the only one of about 30 writers to pick Japan to win the first WBC. I think he knows what he is talking about even if he gets some wrong. It might be a little early to give up on the 23 year old Justin Upton pal.

      • 1 Reply to John
      • Dont get me wrong, first base is deep and has some of the best offensive players in the game. I am saying 2nd base is deep as well for its offensive range. It will never match what an average 1st baseman can do. I guess its just me, but i never worried about taking the best at a certain position. Like the arguement with earlier this year about taking Joe Mauer so early. Yes he is a great hitting catcher but compared to everyone else is offensive numbers is in the middle of the pack.

        I am not knocking Cano, i had him on a few of my teams and Cano did have a great yet, but like i said before he set or matched career highes in 3 out of 5 of the typical H2H categories. I think he will be a productive hitter in the future but i don't expect him to constantly set career highs every season. And i wouldnt say it was an off year for Jeter or Tex. the only category that was down from what they typically do was their batting average. And yes ARod did miss a month. But that is nothing new, he hasnt played a full season since 2007.

        I just see Howard hitting 40plus home runs, driving in 130, and 100 plus runs scored in 2011,2012,2013 and to me that is why i would keep him. That's all i am going to write on this subject, i am not trying to change anyone's mind, just give a different perspective on the issue.

    • One thing Peter Gammons is a nice guy a good baseball guy but he isnt always right. He did pick the Clevland Indians to be a team to watch out for in 2010. Like i said before 2nd base in not thin. Cano, Uggla, Pedoria, Utley, Phillips, Figgins, Weeks, Hill, Johnson, Prado, Kinsler, Walker,and Roberts. That is not a thin list. Thats not even including Beckham, Zobrist, and Infante. These guys will be sprinkled all over the draft and paired with Howard will far out produce Cano and a Billy Butler, Adam Dunn, and Justin (second half shut down) Morneau.

      Another reason Howards power numbers were down besides is missing most of August was the loss of hitters in the beginning of the line up.How often did Philly have a healthy line up? Utley missed over 40 games, Rollins played only 88 games, and Shane Victornio was banged up as well. You may say that is irrelevant but take Arod, Tex, and Jeter out of that line up everyday and see how well Cano does. And to compare Ryan Howard to Adam Dunn is silly. Dunn has never had more then 106 Rbis, his highest avg is 267, the most runs he ever scored was 107, and the most hrs he ever hit was 46. You take Dunns Career highs they still come short to Howards season average. Everyone talks about what Cano can do, but until he actually does it "can" means nothing. Upton brothers were supposed to be cant miss studs because of what they Can do. They were both hyped as 30/30 guys. Both were on the FA list at the end of the season and probably once again they will be hyped as guys that you must have on your team. What Howard has done, compared to any other first baseman or any other position and only few guys can match him

    • hahaha. Yes "piper" is me, that is to say im john and i didnt realize my wife was signed on and not myself.

      You didnt offend me at all. It was a spirted debate, and i love that. However you did twist what i said to make it appear as if i were comparing Howard to Dunn or Butler. I wasnt and I think I made my point clear. Id expect cano and mornuea to put up over 65 homers and 200 rbi this year, so if think the combo of howard and kelly johnston will do the same then God bless.

    • I don't know how I could twist your words when I don't see your name on any of the posts above, Piper. Are you really John? Anyway, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. This is all just opinions. If Cano has another good season like last year, then he'll probably overtake Utley as the best 2B. So as I said, he will make a great keeper. Howard will hit 30+ HR and over 100 RBI, so he'll make a great keeper. So you can take Cano and Morneau. I'll take Howard and K. Johnson. You'll win in BA and Runs, I'll win HR and RBI and we'll both get our ass kicked by some other guy in SB.

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