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    Shutdown Corner

    Hall of Fame controversies have one voter wondering if it’s time to move on

    (Getty Images)

    Each year, the 44-person Hall of Fame Selection Committee gets together in a room during Super Bowl week and does a job they know full well will leave a lot of people very unhappy. From the players who are snubbed by the process, to the fans of those players who believe with all their hearts that the guys on their teams are deserving, to current players who idolized those now eligible, to other members of the football media who use the process to take shots at the guys in that room.

    Defensive end/linebacker Chris Doleman, who finally got in this year after a 15-year career that included 150.5 sacks and eight Pro Bowl selections, couldn't hide his own bitterness about a process that left him out of Canton for almost a decade after his retirement in 1999. He went on Atlanta radio station WCNN recently and let it all out.

    "I think the system has to get a little better. I think what happened -- and what really slows the system down -- is that we jump guys. That's the biggest thing that screws up the system. You got a guy that all of a sudden comes up and we gotta put him in his first year of eligibility. Well you know what that is great, but what it does to the other guys is put them back a year. Everybody is stretched back further and further and further. So now you get this big logjam because you had to put this one guy in. Now everybody on that list is all Hall of Fame material, but when you start jumping guys and throwing a guy in here and throwing a guy in there it messes it up for everyone else.

    "I think it is important that we stay true to the cause and it might take you … it took me five years to get off [the] semi-finalists list. At least a guy can say I am going to get in this year. Not some of this stuff, putting in guys [whose] numbers are massaged a little bit because I think your numbers are your numbers. If you got a guy sitting there with 150 or 160 sacks and you are putting in a guy with 80 or 90 sacks? Come on!"

    Cris Carter, a former teammate of Doleman's, has perhaps the most right to be unhappy with the current process -- after all, it's tough to rationalize the omission of a receiver who ranks fourth in NFL history in career receptions, fourth in career touchdowns and eighth in receiving yards. Factor in his well-deserved reputation as perhaps the best sideline and red-zone receiver in the history of professional football, and his three-time stint as a finalist who keeps getting blocked because of a logjam at his position seems a bit ridiculous. Carter put his opinion forth on a recent appearance on the "Michael Irvin Show" on Miami's WQAM, and his distress was perfectly understandable.

    "I don't look at the list every year. I felt good my first year. I mean, I am the only person alive that's eligible for the Hall of Fame that has 130 touchdowns that is not in it, so when you have a stat like that. You got more touchdowns than Jim Brown and Walter Payton like…I mean I am not campaigning for the Hall of Fame, so for me Mike the list doesn't change every year. My numbers ain't going to change. It's just too much productivity over the time…like I have no argument, Mike. I really don't."

    Former Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman, a Hall of Famer like Irvin, recently stumped for his ex-teammate Charles Haley -- the only player in league history to own five Super Bowl rings, and a key player on all five of those years with the Cowboys and San Francisco 49ers.

    My numbers wouldn't have suggested that I should've gotten into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. But it's more than that. It's not just about putting numbers up on the board and saying, "This guy deserves to be in the Hall of Fame." ... The stats are only relevant when somebody wants to use the stats as an argument as to why they voted for somebody or why they didn't vote for somebody.

    But when you go back and you look at the teams that won those five Super Bowls, he was a big part of those teams that won those five Super Bowls. That's meaningful to me. And having had him on my team for three of them, I'm not so sure we would've won any of them if it weren't for him. I'm pretty adamant about the fact that I believe he deserves to be in and I'm pretty disappointed that it hasn't happened. But I believe it will.

    Peter King of SI.com is one of the 44 voters, and believe it or not, he's as frustrated with the process and its aftereffects as everybody else. I've talked with Peter on a number of occasions, including 2012 Super Bowl week, when I jokingly asked him why Cris Carter didn't make the cut before I actually knew the results. After the 2012 Hall of Famers were announced and the Super Bowl was over, Peter went back home and does what he does every year -- he tried to explain a process that everybody seems to hate. When that didn't work, he started to wonder if his continued participation was worth the trouble.

    In the last few years, I've lost count of how many people in the game and on the street have told me, in various ways, "You're an idiot, you're incompetent, you stink at this, and how can you leave [fill in the blank] out of the Hall of Fame?" And after a while, you just start thinking, Why am I doing this anyway? I figured the other day that I spend the equivalent of about four days of my life each year on the Hall of Fame -- asking former coaches and players and officials about the cases of certain candidates. I know how important it is. I try to do the best and most conscientious job I can, knowing that there are, in almost every class of 15 modern-era finalists, more candidates I'd vote yes on than no.

    This year, when all the discussions in the room were finished, I looked down my list and checked 11 men I'd have voted for and four I would have turned down. But we whittle the list from 15 to 10, and then from 10 to five, before we vote yes or no on individual candidates. That means, on my list this year, six deserving men wouldn't get in.

    Well, I'll say this. I don't agree with everything Peter writes -- in fact, our first online conversation was about my opposition to something he put up -- but after getting to know him a bit, I'm pretty sure that there aren't a thousand people in the country who are more obsessed with the game -- and more in touch with what's going on -- than him. It's not to say that everyone on that selection committee is that committed to the right side of the process, because I'm sure there are some who get in that room and vote with a grudge.

    There are some who may have cast Doleman aside because he missed a Super Bowl by that much throughout his career, just as there are some who might have pushed Carter to the back because he was disagreeable with the media when he was a player. I'm guessing that some folks left Cortez Kennedy off their ballots because they weren't entirely convinced that Seattle actually had an NFL team in the 1990s.

    But unless Peter's voting modus operandi is completely contrary to his character, and his love for the history and integrity of the game, he's precisely the kind of guy you want in that room when the votes are being tallied. And the reformists, now led by Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio, are like most run-of-the-mill reformists -- far more capable of bashing the current system than providing real solutions.

    It's easy to say, "Throw the bums out!" Far more difficult to answer the question, "Now what?" after that's happened. Expanding the pool of voters simply adds more noise to a faulty process. Establishing term limits for voters just sweeps the crap from one side of the floor to the other. If you want to expand the number of finalists who will get in every year ... well, that would be a very good start. When current voters express their frustrations and know they'll be dumping on players who deserve their own bronze busts in Canton, maybe the NFL should be led by that.

    Perhaps it would take fewer years to end those logjams, and then we could have a better idea of just how well the current voters are doing their jobs. Perhaps making the votes public -- as they are in baseball's frequently archaic process -- would help. What would not help is for people like Peter King, who truly and genuinely take their roles seriously and do the very best they can, to bail because they're tired of the abuse.

    The Hall of Fame is important, but it's not so important that its induction process won't be negatively affected by a musical-chairs approach to a system that needs serious reform. Most likely, Peter King would be the first one to tell you that.

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    86 comments

    • Roger  •  3 months ago
      I think Canton need to take a cue from Cooperstown. Every 3rd year or so let the living Hall of Famers be the voting block. They made it, they know what it took to get there and they shoulf be able to look at the players from their perspective and decide.
      • Guido 3 months ago
        Good suggestion...need more players and less media in the process of voting in members.
      • US Army Retired 3 months ago
        Roger that makes to much sense, they will never go for it.
      • Jim C 3 months ago
        Unfortunately, Retired is probably right. The Heisman lets past winners vote; the HoF ought to do the same.
    • Irreproachable  •  3 months ago
      When I was a Kid in the 70's, the guy I remember as being great and who teams feared was Ken Stabler. He was dominant for his period of playing, but he is not in. I guess he played for too many years with the likes of the Saints and Oilers when they were awful.
      • MTD Matt the democrat 3 months ago
        I liked Ken Stabler but I'm okay with him not being in. The NFL only produces a couple truly great qbs or other positions per decade. The HOF should only be the greatest of the greatest.
      • Helpless 3 months ago
        He doesn't deserve it. I'm a Raiders fan and he was good-but not that good.
    • reality check!  •  3 months ago
      `When the HOF was first started, there were fewer teams, and thus fewer players. Maybe there should be a seperate catagory for coaches so their induction doesn't prevent a player from being inducted in the same year. The thing that bothers me is when one player (i.e. Lynn Swann) gets inducted, but players at the same position (i.e. Mark Duper & Mark Clayton) are never mentioned even though their stats blow Swann's stats out of the water in every single category, and they were both (Duper & Clayton) on the same team.
      • robo 3 months ago
        i think in swanns case as also with recievers in the 70's the defenses were harder to play against plus there werent as many restrictions ....clayton and duper werent great recievers they wouldnt have had the numbers they had if they played anywhere else but miami back in those days the dolphins didnt have a running game and there defense wasnt exactly strong so they were in shootouts you but duper or clayton on another team their numbers would be average
    • B Mullican  •  3 months ago
      I never believed that sprots writers should have any power to vote for anything. They are a bunch of groupies who only care about the players who give them a "good interview."
      • robo 3 months ago
        writers only hurt plpayers chances if a writer doesnt like you for some reasonhe can lobby to get you not voted in let the hof members vote they played the game they know what it takes to play and they can validate their reasons...and that should be in any sport ....you look at the past before peds became a big issue teams and players didnt care because they were expected to play... now that being said i think that if a player decides to use them on himself thats on him teams want their best players on the field and they need them to play... and if a player uses the drugs it his body and responsiblity for what the long term affects are.. dont hate the player after all those years you applauded him... when mark mcguire and sammy sosa were hitting home runs like mad it was great for baseball and all of the sports writers were happy to write about them now the ped issues come out and now they slam him... let the players vote not the writer
    • Steve P  •  Seattle, Washington  •  3 months ago
      I would pick Jerome Bettis over Cris Carter any day. Having said that, the one thing that every football fan in America - outside of New York City at least - agrees upon, the selection of Curtis Martin IN ANY YEAR is a travesty.
      • Paul 3 months ago
        A travesty? a RB with 5 pro bowl selections and over 14,000 carer rushing yards Over 1000 yards his first ten years, (Barry Sanders the only other Runnig Back to do that). And led the leasgue in rushing in 2004, being slected to the Hall of Fame is a travesty?
    • 480voltusmade  •  Gainesville, Florida  •  3 months ago
      He doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. In his best years, he was always single covered because Reed and Moss were double and triple covered. He had drug problems. He completely disappeared in all his playoff games.
    • appalled  •  3 months ago
      The number of people that get inducted each year should at the very least be expanded by the same pecentage the league has since the hall of fame was started. At the time of the first class of inductees there were 14 teams. Now there are 32. If the same percentag of players stand out over their careers as in the past, it simply stands to reason that overall number of players tht deserve to be enshrined goes up.
      .
      By the way--5 rings should have left no doubt that Charles Haley belongs in the hall.
    • Larry Brunk  •  Palm Springs, California  •  3 months ago
      Chris Carter needs to close his pie hole.
    • Mark Nathan  •  3 months ago
      In theory, if eight defensive ends came up for the 2013 HOF vote and every one of them had 195 career sacks and 9 Pro Bowls each, why wouldn't all eight get in? Why limit it to one or two DEs? Why does there have to be a limit? What purpose does it serve?

      If Montana, Staubach, Young, Elway, Marino and Brady all were due next year, why not just vote in those who are worthy, which would be ALL of these guys?

      The problem is not with the process, it's with the limitations / restrictions placed on the numbers who can get in. Stupid rule, IMO. If you merit entry, you merit entry regardless of who is eligible in any given year.
    • constructive  •  Philadelphia, Pennsylvania  •  3 months ago
      Hall of Fame induction is a joke. My opinion is it is for the best of the best. Every year you hear about above average players getting in. Chris Carter is an above average, Randy Moss on the other hand was unique to his position and did what no one else could.
    • phil  •  Berkeley, California  •  3 months ago
      If players are seen as entertainers on the field rather than on a stage, and the best of them are Halled, where is Roger Craig? In a time when the Great Age of Rails was already history, he ran like a locomotive. Thrilling to watch. A sweetheart too.

      Now, since we're on the general subject of the Hall-of-Fame racket, how about Canton's neighbor in Cleveland, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? What a selection mess it's made; some most worthy artists will prob'ly never get in, just because they exceeded the artificial time limit.
    • Axtell  •  Dallas, Texas  •  3 months ago
      You want to know how to do EVERY hall of fame selection? No limits to the number of players, but every one gets exactly ONE year of eligibility. Period. There's nothing these people are doing after their careers have been over 5 years to better their case, so either they are first ballot hall of famers or they aren't.
    • Big Dog  •  Surfside, California  •  3 months ago
      Why don't they clear the log jam a little and take bigger classes. Many of these players deserve to be in the hall of fame. There is such a log jam that they need to remove that finals and just accept the top 10 or so. You can't say any of them don't deserve it.
    • brian  •  Massillon, Ohio  •  3 months ago
      Whatever it is, something does need done about the selection process after this years class was named. I live in Canton, and the Hall of Fame weekend is the only positive for the economy of this town. This years class has absolutely 0 star power. It does not have the kind of players who will draw many fans from all over the country to canton for the weekend. This years class has ruined a city desperate for economic dollars. Please do something. None of this years inductees would ever be deemed as "first year inductees" When that happens, for the survival of the town, and the Hall of Fame itself, you must use a popularity scale, plane and simple. If not, i am afraid the Hall of Fame won't be operating much longer.
    • Larry  •  Daytona Beach, Florida  •  3 months ago
      Until Clifford Branch gets in the Hall Of Shame should be closed.
      The bias against the Raiders of the 70's lives on one more year.
    • RayBanSteve  •  Cheyenne, Wyoming  •  3 months ago
      Although I may not have an entire solution to the problem, one thing I would LOVE is for people who actually PLAYED the game (as well as coaches) to have a say. Not a guy who writes for Shites and Giggles Weekly
    • rroyr  •  Chico, California  •  3 months ago
      How soon everyone forgets! Jake Reed sucked! Randy Moss was single covered and learned how to catch from Carter. I watched every game Carter played. He was the 2nd greatest wide receiver of all time!!! Watch his highlight reel. His catches were sick. He was amazing. He definitely had the best hands ever. He was Mr. Touchdown and Mr. 3rd down. The Vikings had an amazing run of 3rd down conversions for 9 years. He worked harder than anyone, and opened his training up to fellow players, and oh by the way....How many quarterbacks did he have to endure to get all of his records....14!!! How many quarterbacks did Rice have for most of his career 2! I am not saying he is better than Rice, but Rice was number 1 and Carter was number 2. Also, part of Carter's career was played were the DB could deck them anywhere on the field. Carter was cutting edge, 6 foot 4 and dominated the league for 10 years.
    • thespectralsorrows  •  Washington, District of Columbia  •  3 months ago
      Doleman to wait 5 years, no big deal, lots of guys have waited longer. Yes, there maybe a logjam, but the bottom line is everyone who's been elected deserved it and there are only a limited number of seats each year. Carter, Tim Brown, Kevin Greene and some of the others will get in sometime in the next 1-3 years...if waiting for a call from the HOF is there only reason to keep living...that is just sad!!!!
    • ROLSTON B  •  Union, New Jersey  •  3 months ago
      I think they need to expand the inductees from 7 to maybe 15 and coaches and contributors don't count toward the inductees limit. Then all who deserved to get in get in within the next few years.
    • zylofone  •  3 months ago
      The best way to handle it is to raise the standards for qualification for the Hall of Fame. It's supposed to be the Hall of FAME. As in FAMOUS. As in, the best of the best of the best of the best. Not just "a guy who had really good numbers, significantly good numbers, was well-known as a force throughout his career." For instance, Joe Montana? Hall of Fame. Hands down. I don't think anyone would disagree. Walter Payton? Same. But...Doleman? I mean, he was a great player, great stats, etc....but there's a difference between "great, great player" and "Hall of Fame player" in my book.

      The problem is that if the Dolemans of the world can get into the HOF, then that opens the door for almost anyone who's got great stats, won a SB or two, etc. If we go beyond "all-time greats", then there's a LOT of players who qualify.

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