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    Shutdown Corner

    Is Eli a Hall of Famer? Not according to Kurt Warner, he isn’t

    By Doug Farrar | Shutdown Corner – Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:30 AM EST

    This a very good start ... but Eli has a few more miles to go before Canton. (Getty Images)

    When you take in Eli Manning's bravura performance in Super Bowl XLVI, his two Super Bowl wins, his two Super Bowl MVP awards (putting him in a very select class), and his ability to finally take his place as the face of a very successful New York Giants franchise, the talk has gone beyond whether Eli's "elite" or not. That argument was settled once and for all when he hit Mario Manningham for a 38-yard gain on the Giants' winning drive last Sunday -- it was one of the best throws the NFL has ever seen.

    Now, the argument seems to be for Manning's Hall of Fame candidacy, and some are lining up on that side. Those opposed would argue that Jim Plunkett led the Raiders to two Super Bowl wins and isn't in that Hall of Fame discussion, but that's a different story -- you're talking about a guy with more career interceptions than touchdowns. Eli's on a higher arc. Not as high as the one brother Peyton has ridden from a purely statistical perspective, but does his postseason work mitigate his below-average stretches in the regular season?

    Eli Manning and Kurt Warner in 2004. (Getty Images)

    According to Kurt Warner, who played with Manning for the Giants in 2004 and will have his own intriguing Hall of Fame argument in a few years, Eli isn't close just yet. Warner explained his reasoning on the "Burns and Gambo" show on Phoenix 620 Radio:

    [Wetzel podcast: Super Bowl XLVI aftermath, with catfight]

    "I know we put a lot of weight on championships, and rightfully so.  But championships are won as a team, and I'm fully convinced of that.  You never see one guy — a great player, great quarterback — carry a team through the playoffs and into a Super Bowl and win a Super Bowl that way.  I've never seen it.  You know even in that game [Super Bowl XLVI], it's 21-17.  That's the game.  There wasn't a quarterback just up and down the field carrying the team."

    Warner had a very solid point, and he elaborated on that further.

    "He's had two great playoff runs, or his team has had two great playoff runs. But I also look at the rest of his career.  I mean, he has an 82 ... quarterback rating throughout his career.  You know, he's had five of his eight seasons where he has thrown 16 interceptions or more.  His completion percentage on his career is 58 percent.  To me, those aren't Hall of Fame numbers and by that I mean every time you step on the field you're a game changer, you're a difference maker.  And I don't believe Eli Manning has been that guy until this year.  I think this year is the first time in his career when he's become that guy."

    I'm on board with that. While he's improved dramatically in the last few seasons, Eli's career regular-season numbers don't really inspire any kind of "greatness" discussion. At this point in his career, I'd compare him more to one of the better New York Yankees players of the 1950s, 1970s or 1990s. You're a key cog in a team that has won multiple championships, you're in the limelight for good reasons, you come up clutch when it counts the most ...  but are you truly great in a historical sense? Right now, Eli may be more Paul O'Neill (with a far more tolerable personality) than Derek Jeter.

    However, if he's given a half-decade more with a great team and what has become the best receiver trio in the history of the Giants franchise, there's no question that Eli could be "that guy." He might even have a couple more Super Bowl victories, and MVP awards, down the road.

    Nobody who has watched Eli play this season could doubt that all these things are possible. But in the same way that it's totally ridiculous to diminish Tom Brady's career legacy because he played as well as he could in a Super Bowl he "lost," it's beyond premature to punch Eli's Hall of Fame ticket years before he's earned it by any conventional standard.

    Right now, Eli's finally one of the best in the game. It took him long enough to get there -- so let's take a deep breath on the rest of it.

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    Watch Full Count!
     
    • A.C. is a Coward
      A.C. is a Coward  •  3 months ago
      Not a fan of the Giants......I'm a Patriots fan.......but 2 Superbowl wins (against what is widely regarded as the Elite team in the NFL), 7 straight 3,000 yard seasons, 3 straight 4,000 yard seasons, 7 straight seasons of 20 TD or more, and clutch performances in the biggest games of the season every year. Twice he brought his team from the brink of not even making the playoffs to winning 2 SuperBowls.

      THEN I think of Joe Namath and compare Eli's stats to Hall of Fame QB Joe Namath, with more career INT than TD, he threw for 4,000 yards once, and 3,000 yards only 2 other times, threw for 20 TD only twice in his career with 26 being his career high when he threw 28 INT. In all, out of 13 AFL/NFL seasons he threw more TD than INT only twice in his career and had a career record of only 62 wins 63 losses and 4 ties, His career QB Rating of 65.5 should be an embarrassment for even the lowest of backups.

      Eli Manning is a Hall of Fame Quarterback.

      Joe Namath NEVER should have been elected. If it was possible to kick players out of the Hall, he would be the first to go. The ONLY thing Namath ever did was correctly predicted his team would win a game (no players ever think their team will win right? LMAO) If Namath played anyplace other than NY he would never have lasted more than a couple years. If he were in his prime today he MIGHT be able to throw to T.O in the Arena Football League....as a backup.
      • Drew S
        Drew S 3 months ago
        I admit that Joe Namath was overrated, but you can't compare his stats to the QBs of today. Today they pass more and play more games. Getting 4000 yards during Namath time is like a QB getting 5000 yards today. Really, getting 4000 yards during Namath time is way more impressive then a QB getting 5000 yards if you factor in games played, more passing attack, better receivers and more work on offense.
      • Jack
        Jack 3 months ago
        Joe brought credibility to an upstart league, and for that he belongs in the HOF (he changed the game with that overly confident win). QB's from those earlier eras played a more difficult position - recievers had the crap beat out of them, QB's were beaten mercilessly, etc.). It's a completely different game today.
      • A.C. is a Coward
        A.C. is a Coward 3 months ago
        I disagree. If Namath played in New England at the time with those stats, is he in the HoF? No. If he played any place else other than NY, nobody would know his name. in 1966 and 1967 he threw 471 and 491 passes respectively competing 49.3 and 52.5 % of his passes respectively. He threw a combined 45 td and 55 int in those seasons, which were his best 2 seasons. They also were his 2nd and 3rd seasons in the league. Those are all very comparable numbers to todays QB's in terms of how often he threw.

        Otto Graham averaged 262 attempts and 2,356 yards in his 10 year career......from 1946-1955. Fran Tarkentons stats were way better than namaths and played during the same era. Jonny U threw for 3481 yards on 410 attempts in 1963 the year before namath came in the league. Namath did not change the game. Otto Grham changed the QB position and Jonny U and Fran Tarkenton refined it to the position as namath played it. Namath really only had 2 good years, and even the good years were not that good aside from his superbowl run. Other than that the New York hype is the ONLY reason anybody knows Namaths name. Like Jeremy Lin today. If he played anyplace other than NY nobody would know who he is.
    • Fakename70
      Fakename70  •  3 months ago
      Will the lazy sports media PLEASE stop debating the HOF credentials of a player WHILE SAID PLAYER IS STILL ACTIVE AND IN HIS PRIME, NOT ANYWHERE NEAR RETIREMENT?! Seriously, it needs to stop.
      • Jessie
        Jessie 3 months ago
        eli won't play past 35 years old, just don't see it. that's basically 4 more years.
      • Fakename70
        Fakename70 3 months ago
        @ Jessie:
        So, have this conversation after he retires then, not while he's still active.
      • Justin
        Justin 3 months ago
        You wanna talk numbers. Take a look at Tom Brady or Payton. not this idiot. tnx
    • PabloG
      PabloG  •  New York, New York  •  3 months ago
      When its all said and done we will see if Eli Manning reaches the hall for now let him and the team do their thing. And I hope for great things from the Super Bowl Champion New York Giants,if you are with good if not stop hating and step back let us have our moment in the sun.This is coming from a Giants fan for 25yrs
    • Terry
      Terry  •  New Bern, North Carolina  •  3 months ago
      What's up with dissing Plunkett for having less TDs than INT!!??!! First off Plunkett played in an era with less passing friendly rules. Second Joe Namath is in the HOF and he has a lot more INTs than TDs. Plunkett also had a better win / loss record than Namath. I'm not knocking Namath here, because I believe belongs in the HOF, just showing what an idiotic statement this author made.
    • MIKE the DUKE
      MIKE the DUKE  •  Newark, New Jersey  •  3 months ago
      Can Manning finish his career first.......He has played many years with the Giants and has endured many changes, may it be injury or trade,to his recievers. Manny has proved that he is a top 5 quarterback in the league now. If he continues to progress the way he has, then ofcourse he deserves the honor.........Go Big Blue.......This is coming from a GIANTS fan for over 45 years.
    • Kenneth
      Kenneth  •  New Orleans, Louisiana  •  3 months ago
      How is Joe Namath in the hof with those stats he has, losing record, more ints than tds,rating below 65%, forgot he played in N.Y. if he's in than Eli should get in when his time come,
      • Roman
        Roman 3 months ago
        Namath being in is a joke and everyone outside of NYC knows it. If Namath is the standard, then a LOT of QB's should get in.
      • black
        black 3 months ago
        The reason Joe is in the Hall is because of what he did for the AFL and NFL as a whole. No one opened up the passing game like Joe. Look at the history books. he was THE FIRST 4000 yard passer. I believe that was in the 60s. 20 years later Dan Fouts broke the record. Bottom line Joe was way ahead of his time.
      • JoeB
        JoeB 3 months ago
        Joe is in the hall for one game. But it's probably the biggest game in NFL history. He changed everything with that one game.
    • JoeB
      JoeB  •  3 months ago
      I tend to agree with Warner but its probably better to keep quiet right now.
    • Marshall
      Marshall  •  Los Angeles, California  •  3 months ago
      Who cares? I root for my team to win Super Bowls, not get in the hall of fame. I'd rather be an Eli fan with two super bowls, than a Marino fan with no super bowls. (even though Marino is clearly the better player)
      • b.venti
        b.venti 3 months ago
        you know what's funny, if big brother peyton had played against a team with a decent QB (sorry rex grossman) in the super bowl there is an EXCELLENT chance that Eli would be the only Manning with a ring...
      • John
        John 3 months ago
        Venti makes a great point. We saw what happened when he played against Brees and the Saints, but the Colts are just getting old. They don't have much time left in them.
      • Jack
        Jack 3 months ago
        I completely agree Marshall. Marino was the first truly great modern QB, but his teams sucked. Awesome performer.
    • Thomas H
      Thomas H  •  3 months ago
      Hall of Fame is a joke. Doesn't really represent the game of football. Too many QBs and RBs and WRs. Not enough linemen or defensive players. Only 2 kickers and NO punters. As if kicking and punting aren't important factors in Football. So the HOF is a joke!!!
      • joe
        joe 3 months ago
        No @hit....if dejon sanders is in there, then absolutely its a joke!!!
      • Oblivenous
        Oblivenous 3 months ago
        first of all, Sanders was a great athlete (despite being an overall douche) and actually deserved being in the HoF.

        secondly, i was w/ your point, THOMAS, until you started talking about kickers and punters, which completely makes you lose face in your argument. punters shouldn't be allowed in the HoF and kickers are COMPLETELY irrelevant. you might as well save a couple roster spots and train anyone else to kick. it's not like any one of the guys on your roster can't have the same field goal % as some of these kickers!

        i mean, ALL THEY DO IS KICK THE BALL, and they can't even do THAT well all the time!!!
      • Robert
        Robert 3 months ago
        No punters what was Ray Guy, he was a punter
    • Michael
      Michael  •  St Paul, Minnesota  •  3 months ago
      No way. I am sick and tired of the media hopping on the bandwagon of who is hot now and blowing their accomplishments out of proportion just to get people to watch/listen/read. Heck! John Gruden was hyping the Chiefs on MNF this season...the Chiefs!

      A HOF career...CAREER requires more than one good year statistically and two good postseason outcomes. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Eli did this past season, but he needs to rinse and repeat...multiple times in order to accumulate enough to put into a HOF career.
    • Stewart W
      Stewart W  •  Omaha, Nebraska  •  3 months ago
      I don't think Warner has forgiven the Giants for benching him for Eli when Eli was a rookie.
    • DD Sims
      DD Sims  •  3 months ago
      The Hall of Fame is a joke when it comes to a team sport. I can understand sports like boxing and tennis honoring individuals because they are individual sports but Hall of Fame for team sports should honor more than just one individual since we all know there are many behind the scenes players doing their part every game.

      Look at all those lineman who work the trenches every game. We hardly ever hear of them even though there are great ones.
    • robp
      robp  •  Hazleton, Pennsylvania  •  3 months ago
      Whether or not Eli is HOF material right now is not the point. He has indeed cemented himself as the greatest QB in Giants history imo. If championships define a HOFer then why shouldnt he be there? But at the same time he overcame an awful rookie season (we all remember Baltimore) and inconsitency to win two SuperBowls. Hes evolved as a player and a leader. This is just my opinion though and as long as the Giants keep winning I could care less about the HOF.
    • The H's
      The H's  •  3 months ago
      If Eli's career ended tomorrow he would not be hall of fame worthy...that being said if he plays QB at an elite level for the rest of his career he will get in.
    • Bob booperdavis
      Bob booperdavis  •  Greenville, South Carolina  •  3 months ago
      Why is the article even written, Eli Manning is not about to retire, is still playing at a very high level, and should be in the game for several more years. Talk about the Hall of Fame when all is said and done, not now. This article should be about Brady, Peyton, McNabb and QBs nearing the end of their playing days.
    • Joseph
      Joseph  •  Reno, Nevada  •  3 months ago
      QB rating is so over rated. Playing with the wind in the Meadowlands every year and generally tough D in the NFC East is a lot difference than dome QB's. We'll see what he does over the next few years, but this year he made some great passes. Only a few guys ca do that.
    • Joe
      Joe  •  3 months ago
      I see Warners point about the "it's a team game", blah blah blah... However, while Eli isn't quite stellar on paper, he's a player that just doesn't seem to get rattled on a big stage. Punch him in the mouth, and he gets back up, stands in the pocket to take another big shot..and more importantly...he's got a short memory. Very reminiscent of a QB like Terry Bradshaw. Over his career, Bradshaw's numbers aren't STELLAR, but in the biggest games, the guy was a rock. If every game was the Super Bowl, Bradshaw would have busts cast in platinum. Eli is proving to be of this very same mold. He's gritty, smart, and virtually undisturbed in the big games. Warner was in 3 Super Bowls, with a record of 1-2, and the Rams team that lost the SB, was undoubtedly better than the previous team that won it. Is Warners performance partially to blame? YES IT IS. The Cardinals loss could be put on his shoulders too. The INT just before halftime (The 99yd pick 6 by James Harrison) could be pinned solely on Warner, which becomes a 14pt swing. The last minute heroics by Roethlisberger and Holmes may not have factored in, had that INT not occurred. Maybe Warner has a short memory too.
    • Irwin Fletcher
      Irwin Fletcher  •  Oklahoma City, Oklahoma  •  3 months ago
      1 I am a Cowboys fan
      2 I am a Kurt Warner fan, but
      3 Kurt needs to stop making dumb statements...2 SB rings = HOF
    • DMK
      DMK  •  3 months ago
      Why bother talking about it now. He's still young. Wait until he is nearing his retirement and then talk about it.
    • Justa' Seed
      Justa' Seed  •  3 months ago
      ..Giants won this SB on a great drive by Manning in the waning minutes of the game..yet this game could have went either way it was that close...those 2 weeks off prior to the SB can be a stickler as far as team performances..Eli was fortunate this time around, yet he didn't have an overpowering performance in either of his SB wins..yet he got the W.
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