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    Cagewriter

    Judging, Koscheck’s options and more: UFC 143 Octagon Observations

    Condit, the new interim champ (Getty)LAS VEGAS -- Watching the main event of UFC 143 from my spot on press row, where the fight can often look quite a bit different than it does on television, I thought Nick Diaz won his interim welterweight title fight against Carlos Condit. I had Diaz winning the first three rounds and Condit taking the last two. The fight was close enough that you can't call it a robbery, but I did feel Diaz was effective enough over the first three rounds to earn the decision.

    In the aftermath of the decision, and the heated debate that came with it, though, I've been left to wonder: On what do MMA judges base decisions, these days?

    Among the several factors judges are supposed to consider under the Unified Rules is aggression. Diaz was the clear-cut aggressor in the first three rounds.

    Octagon control is also supposed to be considered when judging a round. Condit seemed to spend most of the early rounds backpedaling. He even ended the third round literally scooting backwards on his butt to get out of Diaz's way.

    And yet, you never seem to hear anything about aggression and Octagon control these days when judging is dissected after the fact.

    [Related: Carlos Condit faced with controversy after win over Nick Diaz]

    There was a time when turning an MMA fight into a track meet was not considered a virtue. John McCarthy docked Jamie Varner a point in his UFC 62 loss to Hermes Franca for running when he employed similar tactics. Kalib Starnes was just about mocked out of the sport entirely for running sprints in his UFC 83 bout with Nate Quarry.

    This is supposed to be a fight, right? With fighting for points increasingly becoming en vogue, maybe it's time to take a closer look at the actual criteria laid out for the judges when scoring a round. Aggression is supposed to be rewarded and weighted more heavily than defense. Backpedaling and sprinting is not supposed to be a point in a fighter's favor. Let's nip this one in the bud before MMA turns into Olympic tae kwondo.

    • Much is being made of the fact that Condit outstruck Diaz in the fight. According to CompuStrike, he outlanded Diaz, 146-110. All this tells me is that MMA statistic keeping is still in its infancy and has a long way to go before it's a rock-solid method of measuring a fight. Sure, a 36-strike discrepancy could be an accurate portrayal of a fight. It could also mean the when one fighter has another cornered, he connected solidly on a single straight right, only to have his opponent throw a wild flurry of four of five punches, none of which did damage, then scamper to safety. And yet the latter fighter in that example would have a 5-1 strike advantage. Which leads us to the next stat, "significant" strikes, which Condit also took Who gets to define "significant?" That's a subjective decision and thus has minimal value as an objective fight measure.

    [Related: Plenty of outrage over Diaz-Condit decision]

    • In hindsight, maybe Herb Dean should have just docked Alex Caceres after his first kill shot to Edwin Figueroa's groin, then docked him another after the second one, rather than issue a warning after the first one and deduct two later. While Dean's two-point deduction was certainly unusual, I can't get too worked up about it. The first one was right up there with the nastiest groin shots I've seen in six years over covering MMA. Dean issued Caceres a "strong warning," and within a matter of seconds after the fight resumed, Caceres went right back to throwing wild kicks, to the point you could tell there was going to be another foul if the fight went on for any length of time. I wouldn't want to see referees start handing out two-point deductions left and right. But Dean, in my opinion, is one of the two best refs in the business along with Josh Rosenthal, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the call in this instance. Hopefully Caceres, an energetic bantamweight with some upside, will use this experience to become a smarter fighter.

    Koscheck's win (Getty)• Just over a year ago, Josh Koscheck looked like a fighter without many viable options. He had just lost his title challenge to Georges St-Pierre in one-sided fashion, and he suffered a cracked orbital bone in the process. It was his second loss to GSP, and the No. 2 guy in the division, Jon Fitch, was his teammate for life at the American Kickboxing Academy. But now Koscheck has a variety of intriguing options. Should he be the next opponent for Diaz (c'mon, you and I both know Nick isn't retiring)? Should he get a hot up-and-comer like Jake Ellenberger or Rory McDonald? Or is that off-limits fight against Fitch maybe on the table now that Koscheck is no longer with AKA? Love him, hate him, or love to hate him, Josh Koscheck remains one of the UFC's most interesting fighters.

    [Related: Jon Fitch vs. Josh Koscheck is a possibility]

    • Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson apparently never heard of the famed "Octagon jitters" fighters are supposed to experience in their UFC debut. The Simpsonville, S.C., native looked poised and confident from the get-go in his bout with Dan Stittgen, right up until the highlight-reel head kick that won him both the fight and a $65,000 knockout of the night bonus. Sure, one fight is far too soon to label someone a potential contender, but Thompson impressed inside the cage and was humble at the post-fight press conference, so you know he has the right attitude. Way to make a first impression, kid.

    Follow Dave Doyle on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/davedoylemma

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    Watch Full Count!
     
    • Moore  •  Sacramento, California  •  3 months ago
      I agree aggression should be taken more into account so we don't have fighters going for points rather that fighting. But Diaz has beat his last ELEVEN opponents by pushing them to the cage and unloading on them. What did you expect Condit to do?
      • Smackass 3 months ago
        Run Away i guess.
      • Alex A 3 months ago
        grow some &%^$
      • GARLIN T 3 months ago
        condit did more than run he landed more strikes and harder ones considering nicks eye was almost swollen shut and condit didnt have a scratch...what was condit suppose to doo stand in front of him and just start swinging?? He moved out of the way and counterstriked him all night just because he didnt tuck his chin and start swinging for the fences like nick does doesnt mean he ran its called footwork
    • Louis  •  Singapore, Singapore  •  3 months ago
      things judges should take into account -

      Effective aggression - Diaz was aggressive but he was not effective

      Octagon Control - Condit was the one controlling the octagon, he was the one deciding where the fight is gonna take place, Diaz tries to decide where the fight should take place but fails until the last 30-20 seconds of the last round.

      what Condit shows is that MMA striking is progressing to the higher levels of combat sports like Boxing and Kick Boxing, where footwork, elusiveness is even more important than the ability to take a punch.

      what Condit was continuously doing was what pro Boxers and kickboxers would do when their opponent was trying to trap them in a corner of the ring.
      are boxers that do that running away? no, they are improving their position.

      i bet that you are one of those guys that were going on and on about Diaz's stats before the fight but now that the stats are against him says that they mean nothing
      • Stouty McPorter 3 months ago
        Excellent analysis. You should be writing about MMA for Yahoo! and Dave Doyle should be covering track meets.
      • jaemy 3 months ago
        Well written Louis
      • veteran 3 months ago
        Louis you just outpointed an idiot sports writer at his own game. How dare you?
    • sneakyfoot  •  Houston, Texas  •  3 months ago
      Dave Doyle should fight Maggie Hendrix and then lecture us on the wisdom of standing toe-to-toe with your opponent.
      • Dj 3 months ago
        Well written. They know more about that subject than that of writing coherent articles on Yahoo.
      • titans walk 3 months ago
        Fight in the nude
    • Going Postal  •  Las Vegas, Nevada  •  3 months ago
      I want to see Diaz vs. Koscheck. The two most hated fighters in MMA and if Diaz wins he could get a shot at the GSP - Condit winner. If Kos and Condit win Kos could get the title shot vs Condit with GSP vs Diaz to fight the winner. Dana will find a way for this to work for him to make a lot of money.
      • tGW 3 months ago
        Yep. The winner of Sanchez/Ellenberger could be in the mix shortly too.
      • FORKOFF 3 months ago
        Flyers #$%$ and you are most likely a d-bag
      • Going Postal 3 months ago
        Your mom didnt think so when she said I was worth every penny she paid me out of your daddys bank account. She also told me your boyfriend dumped you because you were too fat to walk up the stairs without gasping for air. Good luck with the remainder of your life and finding mr right.
    • GSS  •  3 months ago
      REMATCH!!! Great for Condit fans to shut up nay-sayers....Great for Diaz fans to shut up nay-sayers...Great way to kill time until GSP is ready (ZZZzzzZZZzz)...THUMBS UP/DOWN to send a message (I know requesting "thumbs" is lame - just trying/hoping to promote a rematch...unless you disagree)...GSP won't be ready to fight (at best) til November...I don't know about you guys but I REFUSE to wait that long...welterweight is arguably the most exciting division and it just isn't right to have a 9 month lull...period
      • Abel 3 months ago
        NBK won. Diaz has one hole in his fighting and NBK milked it. Diaz showed he's one dimensional. He needs to figure what to do if someone is gonna move as much as NBK did. He does that and he might be champ. I sure would like to see Diaz v. GSP! If not Dan Hardy, Deigo, or even Mahem would be good.
      • GSS 3 months ago
        He is actually NOT "one-dimensional" (you'd know that if you followed his career)...however, he was indeed one-dimensional last Saturday...can't argue there. Hopefully, the fight teaches him a lesson...he changes his game plan and adapts to when a fighter "evades" him...if you can get past the "thug" antics (many people cannot)...Diaz is the hype that surrounds him...to say otherwise is short-sighted...it's his first loss in more than 6 years (not including Dr's stoppage to Noons in '06)...and Condit did not put a beat down or kick his a in any way shape or form...tone it down a little
      • jaywolf1 3 months ago
        TOTALLY agree with u G, rematch it!!! So GSP is out till late Fall right? yeah, definitely REMATCH it...
    • jskilla10  •  San Diego, California  •  3 months ago
      Accordng to the logic being used by Doyle and the rest of these morons that think lateral movement is running from the fight, then Muhammad Ali shouldn't be the greatest boxer of all time because he wouldn't stand directly in from of monsters like George Foreman and let them club him to the mat. He used his intelligence and his physical skill to win fights, not brute strength.
    • Jeremy  •  Durham, North Carolina  •  3 months ago
      Roy Nelson was more aggressive, do you think he won his fight??
    • Concerned  •  Sacramento, California  •  3 months ago
      Nice column but where was this when Cruz fights? Faber knocked him down 3 times but didn't win. Cruz runs against everyone and keeps winning and is complimented for his style. Diaz is the better fighter, but Condit fought the better and smarter fight!
    • MC  •  3 months ago
      I am a Diaz fan, and was looking forward to the possibility of a Diaz/GSP fight, but ANYONE who questions the outcome of that decision, I in turn question their knowledge of MMA. Condit clearly won the fight, stuck to his game plan and out worked and out pointed Diaz. People would make the same uneducated complaints about Machida runing away, but it's an implemented style/tactic, and obviously it can be overcome. Diaz did not make any adjustments, and then in his tue fashion did not own up to his poor performance.
    • MJ  •  3 months ago
      I love that because a "columnist" has never heard of LATERAL MOVEMENT he thinks the judgeing system needs to be changed.
    • Jersey Guy  •  3 months ago
      I would like to point out to those who pay no attention that Condit has finished MOST of the fights in his career.
    • sun  •  Cleveland, Ohio  •  3 months ago
      A quick point people seem to be missing;

      If Diaz couldn't handle Condit's strategy, he would get destroyed by the Chess master GSP.

      Might as well see if Condit has the brains to do it to GSP b/c we all know Diaz can't.

      Then when its all said and done let Diaz come up and throw some flurries at whoever wins that one. Should be good for Whites bottom line.
    • Darkstar  •  3 months ago
      Diaz had the aggression but i clearly think Condit had control of the Octagon, The engagements took place where and when Condit wanted. So that basically negates Diaz aggression.
    • Wade  •  Prescott, Arizona  •  3 months ago
      This is supposed to be an MMA fight not a boxing match. If I wanted to watch boxing (which most people don't want to anymore) I would watch Manny Pacquiao take apart a victim.
      When I pay $49 to watch an MMA fight I want them to fight like MMA fighters. I concede boxing is a good skill to have and little Condy Lou has that along with a good track time. I am done paying for crxp matches like this.

      Little Cony Lou and the most boring MMA fighter as of late GSP will not be getting my $49. I think I would rather watch the new breaking dawn on chick night at my house with my wifes friends than watch those two dance all night.
    • The Unsilent Majority  •  3 months ago
      All the thumbs-down in the world won't make Nick Diaz the interim champ, sorry to tell you.
    • sneakyfoot  •  Houston, Texas  •  3 months ago
      There are still tons of great fights that can lead to a title picture for Nate. There is no sense in whining about it and talking about quitting because your opponent moves better than you.
    • Josh R  •  St Catharines, Canada  •  3 months ago
      This writer is an idiot if he thinks Condits victory over Diaz, is anything like Starnes' running vs Quarry.
    • Jesus  •  Pomona, California  •  3 months ago
      GSP by decision? or Condit by decision?
    • CodeMaster  •  Toronto, Canada  •  3 months ago
      Yes, octagon control is important--if nothing else happens in the round. There is a precedence to various judging criteria--otherwise, Roy Nelson would win every fight--since he never stops coming forward. A strike--with any limb, is an important event and clear cut in its value to judges--but if the number and effectiveness of strikes is roughly equal--then octagon control becomes more important.

      The most important factor in deciding whether Condit was avoiding a fight or merely choosing his battleground is then number of significant strikes Condit managed to land in the fight.
    • Rich  •  Seattle, Washington  •  3 months ago
      I noticed you don't mention Diaz not changing tactics during the fight and as Dana White always says "DON'T LEAVE IT IN THE HANDS OF THE JUDGES!" I had Carlos Condit winning 3 rounds to two and why in the world would he fought Nick Diaz fight like BJ Penn did... Nick could have always tried to take him down but he didn't... He wanted a stand and brawl because it was his best chance of winning... If he was tired of chasing then cut the ring off or take him down... Let's not get in the habit about complaining for fighters when it's that close...